Talk:Vasily Smyslov

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[edit] point

One point neglected in this article is that Smyslov is famous for having losed a game to Etienne Bacrot in 1993. Can someone add more on this?


It wasn`t a single game, it was a match. Smyslov was far, far past his prime in 1996 (not 1993). A chessplayer`s prime, with few exceptions, ends around 40 at the latest. Most top players say that they peak in their mid-30s and begin a mild decline even before reaching 40. This hardly merits such mention, though perhaps it would merit it on Bacrot`s entry. It would be like mentioning that John McEnroe at 60 lost a tennis match with a prime-aged Roger Federer. Why would it be listed among McEnroe`s achievements? Smyslov didn`t even manage to win a single game in the 8-game match, but that is hardly surprising. Bacrot was an ascending star full of youth, vitality, hunger, energy, and calculation powers. Smyslov was not only aged, but also very out of practice, and did not train and maintain his opening repertoire in a way that is required to win matches.


Why is there no photo for this page? A world champion deserves a photo I should think. I 08:06, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish?!

I'm no fan of these religion-based categories. But in any case, I'd never heard before that Smyslov is Jewish, while this interview with Yuri Averbakh [1] (page 9) suggests he isn't. I propose deleting the category unless there's evidence that he is Jewish. Rocksong 06:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Answering my own question, this site http://www.jinfo.org/Chess_Champions.html says his mother was Jewish. Yet there are other lists on the internet which don't mention him. I guess it can stay, until the day I get my way and all categories "People of occupation X and religion Y" are deleted. Rocksong 07:02, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, he's not listed at Russian Jewish Encyclopedia. I'll email the webmaster of jinfo.org, I suspect his source is dubious. Rocksong 04:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

He is listed as Jewish in a number of sources (no source claims to be exhaustive, so absence from a source causes me no loss of sleep). See, for example, http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:lxE55llqhZgJ:www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_jd/jd_jewish_chess_masters.html+Smyslov+jewish&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us , http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:SP6ATj9jxZIJ:www.jinfo.org/Chess_Players.html+Smyslov+jewish&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us, http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:TX8V3VVhEXUJ:www.dinur.org/resources/resourceKeywordManual.aspx%3Fletter%3DT%26rsid%3D478+Smyslov+jewish&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22&gl=us, http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:_Z7ZxpIymfIJ:www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection%3Fcid%3D1004505+Smyslov+jewish+chess&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us --Epeefleche 22:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm still skeptical, because on the Internet there are sources which copy each other. And I'm dubious of Silman because he also names Spassky, but Spassky appears to have specifically denied having a Jewish mother (see Talk:Boris Spassky). Not Only Chess, by the Jewish chessplayer Gerald Abrahams (George Allen + Unwin, 1974, p.203) writes that Smyslov is "alleged to have had a Jewish grandmother". You'd think if Smyslov really was Jewish then Abrahams would've written more than that. Rocksong 12:48, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I'll also add that the absence from the Russian Jewish Encyclopedia is pretty significant - as a former World Chess Champion, he'd be very famous in Russia, so it's not like the Russian Jewish Encyclopedia could've forgotten about him. On the other hand, I got an email from the editor of jinfo.org, claiming that his source on Smyslov was good. (He also pointed out that he is not indiscriminate as evidenced by the fact that he does not include Spassky). So I still think it's a hard one to decide on. Peter Ballard 01:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
We should be careful with claims like that. An "alleged Jewish grandmother" can easily explode into some people claiming Smyslov is Jewish. It happens all the time, especially with the Jewish people (because of matrilineal descent).
Understood. Personally, I would be in favor of listing him as Jewish, but reflecting any reliable contrary sources information in the bio.--Epeefleche 20:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
To add to the discussion, during chess games of Botvinnik vs Smyslov, anti-semitic audience members chanted "Vasily, kick that Jew ass." Had Smyslov actually had a Jewish grandmother, to the Russians, he's a Jew. So that chant would make absolutely no sense.

[edit] need better photo

The article needs a better photo of Smyslov. Bubba73 (talk), 03:00, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we may have too many now actually. Do we really need five? The 1958 image has a fair use rationale which claims the subject is deceased (not the case, obviously) and placed in the World Champion section it's created a large amount of empty white space which looks a bit odd to me.Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I've now expanded that section a bit to remove the white space.Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
That message was a few weeks ago. Now the photos are OK. Bubba73 (talk), 15:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm aware of that, but my point was that Wikipedia's policy is that fair use images should be kept to an absolute minimum and that as there are already free images in the article, I'm not sure we can justify having two fair use ones. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:53, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
At that time, there were only the two recent photos and the early one that has the strange pattern running through it. The new ones don't show him well enough, and the other one has those distracting artifacts. I added the other two - a better shot of his face, and also around the time he was in his prime playing years. Bubba73 (talk), 17:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)