Talk:V sign

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[edit] Source for Bush Sr. accidentally giving the bowfinger?

Currently the article says,

Sometimes foreigners visiting the countries mentioned above use the "two-fingered salute" without knowing it is offensive to the natives, for example when ordering two beers in a noisy pub, or in the case of the United States president George H. W. Bush, when he attempted to give the "peace sign", and instead gave the insulting V sign to onlookers while touring Australia in 1992.

There's a reference for that, but the reference points to a 2006 gossip column in the Washington Post ("Reliable Source, April 5, 2006) with the note "see section 26 for Bush/V-sign". The "section 26" turns out to be a reader comment in the discussion area:

The chin gesture: Regarding last week's discussion about the chin gesture, don't we all remember Bush Sr. in Australia in 1992?

"V" Sign (Wikipedia)

"After telling the press he was an expert in hand gestures, George Bush gave the "V-for-Victory" sign as he drove in his armored limousine past demonstrators in Canberra, Australia's capital in January 1992. In Australia, holding up two fingers to form a "V" has the same vulgar meaning as the middle-finger gesture in the United States. The Aussie demonstrators were very mad, and they signaled in the same manner back at the U.S. President. Bush later apologized."

Roxanne Roberts: We all don't, so thanks for sharing.

So the only source is a reader comment in a forum, which links back to... this same article! I'm going to remove that reference, and replace it with a factcheck tag. If nobody provides the source in the next few days (and I can't track it down myself), I'll nuke it. I think we're on the debatable and misty frontiers of WP:BLP, and we shouldn't be telling stories like this without some references... -- Narsil (talk) 15:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't find any sources for the story, and nobody chimed in here... so I'm removing the reference from the page. -- Narsil (talk) 21:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I had a look too using Google search using different search patters, there a number of similar quality sources that claim the same thing with slightly more or less detail. The most reliable source I came across was this one George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography --- by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin Chapter -XXV- THYROID STORM:

Bush displayed decided mental instability during this trip. In Canberra, Australia, he flashed a well-known obscene gesture to a group of farmers who were protesting his "free trade" farm policies. Bush told a luncheon cruise in Sydney harbor, "I'm a man that knows every hand gesture you've ever seen-- and I haven't learned a new one since I've been here." As the Washington Post reported, "Down here, holding up the first two fingers to form a "V" with the back of the hand toward the subject is the same as holding up the middle finger in the United States. And that's just what Bush did from his limousine to a group of protesters as his motorcade passed through Canberra yesterday, apparently not knowing its significance. Or maybe he did." [fn 74] ...

74. Washington Post, January 3, 1992.

The web page belongs to Webster Griffin Tarpley. Given that the book "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography" was published by at least two publishers Paperback edition (1991) from Executive Intelligence Review and paperback edition (2004) from Progressive Press, the quote appears on page 651 of the 2004 edition and with the footnote this a wikipedia reliable source. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 09:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jun Inoue

I have moved the following to here:

Another possible origin of the overwhelming popularity of the sign used in photographs was revealed in a series of Japanese variety programs from September-November 2007, the first of which was the popular Down Town DX. The man cited as responsible for popularizing the V sign is a Jun Inoue (Junji Inoue at the time), a popular actor known for roles in television dramas, films and commercials. In 1972 he appeared in a series of commercials for the Japanese camera maker Konica in which he was photographed in a number of candid poses all with one thing in common—he was flashing the V sign. According to Inoue, the idea for the sign was an ad-lib based on his perception of its popularity overseas.(Fact

I could not find a reliable source for it on the Web, but I did notice that this article has been used as source for this information on the web, so we need to have a WP:SOURCE for the paragraph. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 11:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)