Talk:University of York

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[edit] Colleges

Is Halifax really a college? I know people live there (isn't it mainly intended for families or something?), but I thought it was a sort of extension of one of the other colleges (Vanbrugh, I think). Also, is Central Hall really a "popular classical venue"? While I was there, I only remember the Gilbert and Sullivan Society giving concerts there - all the "proper" classical concerts happened in the Jack Lyons Concert Hall. --Camembert

Actually, now I come to think about it, they did have classical concerts in Central Hall sometimes - the university orchestra played there sometimes. I've fiddled with that part of it, but I'm still not sure about designating Halifax a college. --Camembert

It's used for quite a few concerts at the moment, plus G&S and also the newer Central Hall Musical Society. As for families, you are thinking of the accommodation on West Moor Lane, which is near to but separate to Halifax. Quite a bit, in fact, is privately owned. -Matthew Platts 07:21, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

CH definitely has been used as a classical music venue, as I've played in many concerts there in the past. I couldn't vouch for the quality, however ;)--Dazzla 22:38, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Although Central Hall Musical Society (CHMS) is newer than G&S, it's worth pointing out that CHMS was spun out of DramaSoc in 2000, a week or so before their production of Assassins, for various insurance reasons. DramaSoc (and G&S) had been doing annual productions in Central Hall for quite some time before this - though I'm not old enough to know which was first! The first production entirely under the CHMS name was Sweet Charity in 2001, although CHMS retained very close links with DramaSoc for this show. Anybody know if the two societies are still as closely linked today? AndrewBooker 19:00, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

You're right, Halifax isn't a college. It's a residential encampment in its own private universe. Unless its been upgraded. But given it's off campus, I doubt it can be called a college. -Nommo

Halifax became a 'proper' college in the academic year 2001/02, and I have a hunch that it may have overtaken Alcuin in size to become the largest college at the university. As far as I know there are no departments that call Halifax 'home', though this doesn't stop it from being a college in its own right. -a graduand at York

Fair enough, I've added it back. Thanks for clarifying. --Camembert

No problem. I don't know whether it's worth updating for this, but Wentworth is a college for postgraduates now. I'm not sure whether it became so this academic year or last academic year, though; the years often blur into one, especially for things I have nought to do with. (For instance, Wentworth College or postgraduate study! :-)) -Matthew

Wentworths been a postgrad only college for longer than I've been in york and I started in 2001 -- Tomhab 01:47, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Halifax really is a college and by far the largest, and has been for a while I though. Especially since UPP was introduced -- Tomhab

Agreed. It was made a college in 2001, the first chair was James Byron. (Followed by Tim Fassam, Verity Radley, Noel Davies and James Flinders). The JCR is JJs.

Matthew Platts 07:21, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Is Langwith really named after a field??? -- Tomhab 01:47, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Not exactly. It's named after a field and an abandoned village, at least according to the folklore page on YSF YSF. Matthew Platts 07:21, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yeah - if you look at the official langwith college page I seem to remember it says its named after Langwith Common [1]. I just thought it was funny how the article was worded :) -- Tomhab 11:25, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] College loyalties

I'd like to dispute that "college loyalties are not especially strong". --Greg K Nicholson (Derwent)

Compared to soemthing like oxford, cambridge or even the US sorority system its not. Teaching is done in college in oxbridge so you'd only meet people from it. In york colleges are only for accomodation and some social. I'm in Halifax but live with soemone from Goodricke and another from Derwent. -- Tomhab 01:36, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Agreed (but then I would, since I wrote the disputed sentence in the first place:-).Even socially, in other collegiate Universities you probably wouldn't drink in a bar in another college, and certainly wouldn't attend social events there unless as the guest of a member. My experience at York (admittedly a few years back now, so correct me if things have changed) is that college loyaties don't extend beyond a few slogans at sports events, and a slight preference for the closest bar to one's room! Cambyses 10:44, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sounds about right. To be fair it is more loyal than the hall's system I've seen in other unis (I'm thinking about Birmingham in this case). There are some people who probably wouldn't leave their own college unless they need a new bottle of vodka though.... -- Tomhab 16:28, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

During the mid-to-late '80s, before all day opening, college loyalty was so loose that we used to head to whichever college bar opened earliest! Langwith used to open at 18:30, but Derwent at 18:00, so we generally ended up in Derwent, at least for the start of the night. The quality of the beer in the bars was also a factor, as of course was the quality of the 'bops' :) 192.11.224.124 14:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Teaching is done in college in oxbridge so you'd only meet people from it - actually thats not true, at Cambridge many courses, including all of the sciences are taught in mixed college groups for large parts of the course. Only tutorials are taught only though the college Mammal4 12:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Central Hall pop performances

I notice that references to 'infamous' Boom Town Rats incident have been removed. Is it possible that someone has access to hard evidence about the event and we can get the matter settled once and for all. Several rumours persist throughout the University undergraduate population. Someone with a memory going back that far would be useful, as would any campus paper archive material. Was there actually a ban put in place by the SU or other relevant body to stop future pop bands playing? If so, is it still in existence and what are its specifics? --Pluke 02:07, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Take a look at the folk lore website on this[2]. It is pretty detailed and AFAIK pretty accurate. I messaged the editor about it and I think he said he removed it as it implied that rumours were true (namely, central hall sunk). It's actually infamous cuz they smashed the place up a little. -- Tomhab 22:52, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry another one of my late night editing sessions, i should have found that link :) Anyways I think this is worthy of inclusion if we can trust the folklore site's conclusion as it's definitely one of the bigger University rumours, be good to clear it up officially --Pluke 00:47, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

how about this: Performances by big-name acts have been rarer at the university following a 1985 Boomtown Rats concert, during which the cover of the Central Hall orchestra pit was damaged. A ban on pop performances in Central Hall was imposed by the University, although it has occasionally been waived, and Central Hall is still sometimes used for classical concerts

sounds good to me -- Tomhab 12:36, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Departments and History Departemnt

Is it really necessary for the history department to have it's own section in the article? From personal experience while at the univeristy, while the hsitory department may be fairly large, it isn't that much more improtant in the greater scheme of things than many others. As alot is written about it in the article maybe a separate article would be best for hsitory and related departments.

Whilst we are at it I think an improvement would be to include a bit more on the diffenret departments at York in the main article. A small sentence about each would be good, where they are located and when founded etc. At the least I think a simple list would be good. If more details are wanted then maybe a separate article could be created like with my suggestions for History. I think this as the departmetns are what make the university what it is and the staff in the departments are what has created the universities great reputation for teaching and research, but at the moment very little is included about many. Evil Eye 15:40, 29th July (UTC)

I agree with you. It is quite unbalanced, (and the History section reads a little too much a prospectus, too -- a little NPOV wouldn't hurt). — Matt Crypto 16:54, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Source?

Anyone got a source for this?

The University has gained fame for being perhaps the first British University to have fraternities linked to American orders and fraternity/sorority houses.

Thanks! — Matt Crypto 08:44, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

haha - Goodricke is now called Gamma Delta Rho? -- Tomhab 09:21, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I was surprised at this remark also. I graduated in 2001 and keep a reasonable awareness of what happens on campus. I suggest removing this line if no justification can be made of it.

I only graduated this summer (and am still at the uni now) and I've never heard of this before. I'd almost bet money that it is probably just a small group of people who've moved into a house and decided they want to set something like this up...probably nothing much will/has come of it. They might have just put it here to make themselves feel more important...

...then again it all be completely made up and not even have any fine thread of truth in it.

Either way, I suggest the line be removed too as it is not something well known at uni even if it were true. Evil Eye 21:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

This "fact" is false. No fraternities at York.

[edit] Academic departments

The article's first paragraph states there are 30 academic departments, yet we only have about 27 in the list further down the page. Does anyone know what has happened to the missing three academic departments? Evil Eye 22:10, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting fact?

I've removed the following from the article:

Interesting(!) historical fact:the lectures all start at 15 minutes past the hour because, when the university first opened, the first bus from the city that arrived in heslington did so at 9:10 so the lectures began at 15 past.

I thought it might be worthwhile including it in there somehow if it could be proven to be true, but until then, I don't think it has any place in the article. Evil Eye 23:45, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Facebook 13,174¹ York Uni users - I think it would be "fun" but also interesting to state the current user count of facebook users on the York Uni network. Perhaps it is possible to distinguish between the "alumni" users and the "current" ones on facebook. I think this would show how important facebook is to York students in particular. For someone new and possibly going to York, would show straight away that facebook would be an indispensable part of uni life not to miss out on. Any suggestions? Lexxus2010 talk 19:22, 2 January 2008 UTC
₁Retrieved on 2 Jan 2008

[edit] Media "Censorship"

I'm not familiar with YUSU or its media outlets, but the section on accusations of censorship look quite POV to me. Whilst I'm not familiar with the specific situation, I know that since the media are part of the Students' Union, in many cases this would make the Students' Union legally responsible for their output. It may be that the Students' Union asked to see articles to prevent potential libel difficulties. Jamse 18:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe there may be more to it than that. While I got most of my info from the affected newspapers (who obviously have an agenda), the timing of its inception and cases to which it has been applied (admittedly again as reported by said papers) don't entirely support the SU's welfare argument. There's a review by Nouse here. Meloncholy 02:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zones?

Is the section on zones really necessary? I've been at the university for 3.5 years now and I've never heard anyone talk about different 'zones' on campus. Apart from that, IMHO it makes the article quite a dull read and doesn't seem like particularly useful information. …Ner102 13:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. — Matt Crypto 08:51, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - sounds daft.Hippo43 16:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

-As a point, should anyone read this: Zones are used by Estates, admin and various other support services, namely Security. It's rarely ever encountered by students unless they're running an event and have to contact the Zone Manager (for example, Central Hall is part of Zone 3, I think). If you go "behind the scenes" as it were, there are lots of maps on the wall that clearly define these zones. Students and visitors will be unaware of these and will probably just refer to colleges when talking about location, making their use only of interest to those working on the internal running of the University. 9 March 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.18.30 (talk) 21:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spin off companies

I reverted the addition of a spin off company because including just the one looks suspiciously like advertising. There are dozens of these and the page could fill up with them. If we were to list spin off companies we should be careful just to list the most notable (though how to tell that might be fraught). My feeling is not to list spin off companies unless they are really major international players. What do others think? --Richard Clegg 12:35, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I've been told elsewhere that lists on wikipedia are all good, so maybe a list as a separate article and just put the important ones in the main york uni article could be a plan. If we can list enough of them that is.Pluke 16:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Not sure that all lists are good but if there were several then a page for "Spin off companies from the University of York" would be a better place for them than the main article. It should be noted that Cambridge has a zillion spin off companies (yes, yes, cite needed but I bet it's more than York) but doesn't link any from its wikipedia article. --Richard Clegg 16:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd hope we could keep them out for now, as well. I'm also not convinced that all lists are good, but sometimes a subarticle makes a good spam trap. Even if you think it's worthless as a list, it's very easy to ignore it (unlike it cluttering a "proper" article). — Matt Crypto 18:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] King's Manor

I was just wondering why there is no reference to the King's Manor, which is the second campus of The University of York. Since it contains a number of departments (Centre for Medieval Studies, Centre for Rennaisance and Early Modern Studies, Eighteenth Century Studies and Archaeology) I thought it should probably be included in the article. However, I may have missed a reference...?

Added, with a link to its article --Jmptdc 15:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] College system

The university is nominally based on eight colleges, which provide accommodation for students and for some of the academic departments. In practice, the colleges are more like halls of residence than the traditional Oxbridge colleges.

I think that this sentence is a little misleading - Sure the colleges aren't as strong as they are at Oxbridge, but they are still somewhat more than halls of residence that I have seen at other universities. I speak with first hand experience from York and Cambridge. Maybe this should be reworded to distinguish this difference? Mammal4 11:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe change it to

The university is nominally based on eight colleges, which provide accommodation for students and for some of the academic departments. In practice, the colleges are half way between a hall of residence and a traditional Oxbridge college.

Evil Eye 14:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes I think something like that would be much better - anyone else have other comments? otherwise I'll change it. :) Mammal4 14:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd go for 'somewhere' rather than the precise 'half way', but otherwise I too agree. Perhaps some explanation of why they're more than halls of residence would be useful - having never been to Oxbridge, I am not sure how their colleges operate. Matthew 15:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motto

The motto stated, In limine sapientiae, doesn't seem to have any relevant results in a Google search, other than Wikipedia, and the motto of some guy called John. Could anyone translate? I don't have a clue with Latin - at a guess, I would say something like 'toward the threshold of wisdom.' Could anyone cite the motto? I'm not really being accusatory, I'm just curious. And I want to know before I arrive in October. Jameshfisher 16:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

In limine sapientiæ translates as 'at the threshold of wisdom', or alternatively 'at the doorway to knowledge'. It's the motto on the university's coat of arms, which (despite the efforts of some overpriced bunch of charlatan design consultants and corporate image merchants) can still be found on certain formal university documents (such as degree certificates - I can probably scan mine if you're bothered). (That's the university's real coat of arms, by the way, not to be confused with the ones that some of the colleges have adopted, which were just made up and aren't real.) -- Nicholas Jackson 20:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DPhil

Is it worth mentioning that a research degrees at York is a DPhil (rather than a PhD)? I think it's the only UK University other than Oxford to use this name, but I'm not certain. Also, if anyone knows *why* it's a DPhil and not a PhD at York I'd be interested!

It's a PhD now, alas — the decision was taken to conform about four or five years ago. For many years, though, Oxford, Sussex and York were the only English universities to use DPhil (although I've a vague suspicion that one of the four old Scottish universities did at one point, but they don't any more) — Nicholas Jackson 13:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Derwith"

Just for info, I started at York in 1987, and Derwith was open then, earlier than the 1988 mentioned in the article; I was Langwith, but had friends living in Derwith during our 1st year, and I don't think they were even the first residents there. 192.11.224.124 14:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving of the Alumni

The alumni is getting distractingly big, do we really need all of them listed on the page, can we have a sub page or something?

Pluke 23:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree the list is getting distractingly long. On the other hand I am not convinced that it has enough detail to warrant its own page. We could look at List of Durham University people for precedence.Mumby 08:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally I'd be in favour of removing it completely. At the very least it could do with a serious trim. What's the criteria for someone being notable? Bompstable 09:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Should it be notable dead alumni, or just extremely notable alumni (i.e. nobel prize winners? There appears to be a lot of self-publicising here (current Univeristy of York Staff, Members of Parliament, etc), individuals that while evidently successful and/or intelligent, cannot be described as "notable" in the same way that Albert Einstein is. . Additionally a one word description of their role should be enough if an individual is of sufficient noteworthiness in their field. Titles such as "Professor of Politics and Women's Studies, and Cross-bench peer in the House of Lords." Are ridiculously specific and far too long, perhaps "Academic" would surfice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.17.53.133 (talk) 02:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] University ratings

(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities#University ratings. Timrollpickering 23:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Student activities

"Recently, under the chairmanship of Soumya Basu (Schmitt), the Society started to rebrand itself to lose the 'stigma' attached to it..." Can this be clarified? What was the stigma? Sexual impropriety in the woodwind section?Widmerpool 04:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Not sure this is a very balanced look at the student societies. While some (e.g. URY, YSTV, newspapers) are clearly of note, others mentioned (e.g. debating union, hacksoc, cinematography?) don't appear to have particular merit over the ca. 200 other societies and clubs at the university. Others that are perhaps more significant, such as the Pole Exercise Club (the first pole club at any UK university and for which the founder, Lucy Misch, won 5 awards), are omitted. (Disclaimer: I'm a member of the Pole Exercise Club.) Meloncholy 02:31, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you on the issue of mentioning societies. I think there needs to be a section explaining the role of societies in a general sense and perhaps mentioning freshers fair. Instead of citing two or three societies, I think there should be a separate page listing all societies with links to each one with perhaps some small explanatory sentence. Similar to what is found on TheYorker.co.uk or the YUSU page. - I would be willing to create that page.

Societies are an integral part of student life that make york worth a lot more. (just want to know if anyone thinks this idea is a good one) Lexxus2010 talk 19:01, 2 January 2008 UTC

[edit] "Getting to and from the University" section

Is this section really appropriate for an encyclopedia article? The articles for the Universities of Leeds, Sheffield, Durham, Kent, Lancaster and probably all other UK universities (I got bored) say where the campus/campuses is/are but don't go into details about bus fares and service numbers. And it's doubly bizarre that this info appears ahead of the list of academic departments. The Structure guidelines at WP:UNI don't suggest that this sort of information is necessary in a WP article. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 22:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. A link to the University's "How to find us" page tucked away somewhere would be better. --RobertG ♬ talk 10:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. Feel free to put the link somewhere else. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 21:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crest/shield

The shied we have on the info box is incredibly small. If anyone could get hold of a larger image of the university's shield or perhaps its crest (although that one's only allowed in the presence of the Chancellor, isn't it?) then I think it would be a vast improvement to the overall appearance of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.107.148 (talk) 18:57, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "All students and all departments are allocated to a college"

That's what it says in the 2nd paragraph of the lead. However,

the Heslington Campus section, 1st para, says Most of the university's arts departments occupy premises in the college buildings, while many of the science departments have their own buildings.
the Colleges section further down says Some of the university's academic departments have their headquarters in one of the college building complexes.

So - which is correct? Also, it's fair enough to briefly include the info, whatever it should be, in the lead, but surely it shouldn't appear more than once (perhaps expanded) elsewhere. GuillaumeTell 11:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

They are both correct, I think. Students and academics are allocated to one of the colleges, no matter which department they are in, and no matter which college (if any) houses their department. Formal teaching and research take place mostly in the departments; each college's undergraduate students have their tutorials mainly with academics allocated to their college. I think each college has its own provost, and makes separate provision for the pastoral care of its students. --RobertG ♬ talk 11:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. The three quotations above from the article were intended to point out that there are conflicting statements about departments, not about students. Are all departments allocated to a college? Are some arts departments not located in college buildings? How many (out of how many) of the science departments have their own [non-college-located] buildings? Are there more departments that do not have their HQs in college buildings than those that do? --GuillaumeTell 15:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

When we talk about of a department being "in" a college, there's not much more of a specific relationship than that. Most colleges (not James or Halifax) have a bit of space that's used for tutorial rooms and for academics' offices, so one or two departments will be based in those rooms. It was designed this way so that there was no need for specialised buildings for each department. The department does not "belong" to the college in any way except in the fact that it happens to use rooms in the college buildings. Most tutorial rooms are centrally timetabled and can be used for anything by any department, or they can be booked by individual students and societies.

As it happens, in general, science subjects tend to have rather more specific needs than arts subjects in terms of what is available to them. Academics and students may well need easy access to a laboratory and a workshop, for example, which might be awkward to place in a college. Thus the sciences have generally been given their own separate buildings to allow for this, whereas art subjects which don't have the same requirements use space in colleges. This isn't an exact split - notably, Maths is based in college while Music has its own building. But it's a general trend. Pfainuk talk 15:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)