Talk:United States Foreign Service

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I think this article should contain some information about the foreign services exam. user:titaniumdreads

I concur. Either that or link to a good site that has info on the test. --24.59.12.203 22:08, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Just added some info on joining the Foreign Service and the exams. A link to the official State Department Careers site is also there. Need anything else?

Contrary to the statement on US Foreign Service Agencies, the US Department of Commerce's Foreign Commercial Service; the US Department of Agriculture's Foreign Agricultural Service and the USAID are not just "using the Foreign Service's personnel system" - these three agencies are part of the US Foreign Service, like the State Department. USAID is now part of the State Department.

The Foreign Service Act states unambiguously that these agencies are "authorized to use the FS personnel system" Please see the US Congress web site for the original text.

USAID is not part of the state department. Check http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/dos/54734.htm for an organizational chart.

Can't put too much about the Foreign Service exam out in the public domain as it is an exam! You can't give away the answers!

This article needs some work. Calling the Foreign Service a "personnel system" is like calling the U.S. military and naval establishments "personnel systems". The Foreign Service is a commissioned service of the United States Government.

It is indeed a personnel system, one of several under which US Diplomats are assigned overseas. It is important to clarify this so as not to confuse the term "foreign service", with Diplomatic Service.

Only certain categories are promoted under the so-called "up or out" system. Medical personnel, technical staff, and others are not subject to those requirements.

This page does seem to read like an advertisement or brochure for the USFS. There could certainly be more done with history and the foreign service exam. As for not giving much away about the exam, for much of it there are no "right answers." Especially in the oral exam you are given questions such as "do you support American Foreign policy in Europe? Support your answer." and questions to that effect. It is certainly an article with plenty of information available to make it informative without sounding like a recruiting tool.

I improved and updated this page which had devolved into a poorly-written article. I added a section on the history of the Foreign Service as well us reverted back to using sub-sections as had been done previously. As far as the complaints about article "reading like an advertisement", well, the Foreign Service is not engaged in "selling" anything, other than the foreign policy of the United States itself. Presently a well written, verifiable article from a neutral point of view does not preclude the article from having the same reader appeal of an advertisement. SONORAMA 14:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about the article trying to "sell" the Foreign Service; anyone using wikipedia as a prinipal means of information about the FS is quite unlikely to ever pass the written exam, much less the oral!

[edit] FS as a "personnel system"

I recently edited the language to tone down the claim that the FS is a "personnel system". To use that terminology, outside of FS agencies, would unnescesarily confuse the reader as to the nature of the Foreign service.Rockford1963 22:13, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The FS is indeed a personnel system. To not include that fact is misleading because many US diplomats are not appointed or assigned under that (personnel) system. We should not lead the general public to believe that the term "foreign service" is equivalent to Diplomatic Service. Today's complex world needs diplomats from many fields and specialities. The FS personnel system cannot meet all of these needs and due to labor disputes within the Dept of State, more and more diplomats are being assigned abroad under systems other the the Foreign Service, as defined in the US Foreign Service Act

.Statesman

[edit] Directed Assignments

I propose a new section entitled "Directed Assignments". Although rare in the history of the Foreign Service there have been periods of large numbers of directed assignments (e.g U.S. Embassy in Saigon, Vietnam). Recent reports of directed assignments to Iraq should be covered as well.74.167.31.67 02:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Importance of Correct Nomenclature

I've made a few minor edits to one section of this article. There seems to be ongoing confusion as to some Foreign Service specific terminology and systems. While this all may seem rather arcane, those who work in diplomacy know that the right words can make all the difference. I advise others to verify with the official websites careers.state.gov or www.state.gov before editing or changing the terms in this article.

For the record the incorrect statements removed were: Increasingly, diplomats are being appointed and assigned under other personnel systems. For example, in addition to FSNs, who are members of the Foreign Service, foreign citizens are hired as "Locally Employed Staff", or LES. In some cases Americans living overseas are employed as "LES".

No -- LES and FSNs are not appointed as diplomats, and diplomats other than political appointees are not appointed under any other personnel system. "Diplomats" here refers to Commisioned Officers of the Foreign Service, ie Generalists.

Yes indeed -- US Diplomats serve under a numerous personnel systems. The FS is one of those systems, but by no means the only system under which diplomats are assigned. To suggest that only FS members, or only generalists are diplomats is totally misleading. It was precisely due to those comments that "Foreign Service Day" was renamed "Foreign Affairs Day". That was to make sure that the term "Foreign Service" , meaning service abroad was not confused with the Foreign Service personnel system as defined in the Foreign Service Act. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fsbrat (talk • contribs) 07:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

First of all, please use a colon (:) to indent your replies. It makes it easier to read responses from multiple parties if they are each indented. Now, to address your reply - there is no definition of "diplomat" within a USG personnel system that I'm aware of. The Vienna Convention, which the US has ratified, refers to "diplomatic staff" and "administrative and technical staff" which roughly correspond to generalist and specialist. The dictionary defintion of "diplomat" -- "one appointed to represent his government in its relations with foreign governments" also corresponds to Commisioned Officers, ie the FS Generalist career path, and not to those who may be, say, working in an overseas Social Security office. And we certainly don't refer to host-country citizens as "diplomats", even though they work in an Embassy. So, in this article, we will keep a distinction between the work of diplomacy and the work of others in service to the US Government. SONORAMA (talk) 09:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion. I will use a colon to indent. I agree that there is no definition of diplomat within USG personnel systems but can state for a fact, that the State Department appoints diplomats to represent the government and help manage relations with foreign countries under various personnel systems, not just under the Foreign Service. For example, there are diplomats sent as Excepted Service members under the GS (general schedule). These are also full-fledged diplomats, but not members of the FS personnel system. The FS has a very powerful labor union known as AFSA that is trying to portray its members as the only "real" diplomats, but there is no legal basis for this assertion.

Regarding host country citizens, they are defined as "members of the Service" in the Foreign Service Act. I agree that membership in the FS does not automatically mean that a person is a diplomat. fsbrat 12:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed, many US diplomats are appointed and posted abroad under non_FS personnel systems. And political appointees ARE usually appointed as members of the Foreign Service, although usually on limited appointments. Regarding "specialists", the correct term as defined in the Foreign Service Act is "FS personnel". There is no restriction on the types of specialists that may be recruited - this is at the Secretary's discretion and based on the needs of US diplomacy. We should make it clear that the terms "diplomat" and "foreign service member" are not synonymous. There are plenty of diplomats who are not part of the Foreign Service. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.252.4.21 (talk) 06:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure, the FS could create a specialist career path for lawyers, economists, or zookeepers for that matter -- but it hasn't! All Foreign Service specialist career paths are listed on the official careers.state.gov web site. Let's keep the article focused on actual specialist career paths rather than fictional ones. SONORAMA (talk) 09:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Foreign Service Personnel perform unique services in support of the Service. Examples of specialists include Medical Doctor, Health Practitioner, Technicians, Lawyers, Economists, Linguists, Law Enforcement Officers, Agricultural experts from the USDA, Information Resource Management, Office Management Specialist, and Regional Security Officer...'

No -- "Lawyer" and "Economist" are not specialist career paths as reflected on the State Department's official careers website. "Agricultural experts from the USDA" refers presumably to the Foreign Agricultural Service, which is part of the Foreign Service, and this is explained better elsewhere in the article. SONORAMA (talk) 15:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

As a member of the FS and interested party, I thought that tracking the Foreign Service Act, the law passed by Congress which created the FS personnel system as we know it today, was proper and helpful. My edit was reverted and somebody wrote that I was a "sock puppet". I know that there is controversy about categories of FS personnel, and about other categories that exist within our Diplomatic Service. That was not mean to be insulting and if it is considered offensive I apologize. If I am mistaken, please correct me. There are many many US diplomats assigned around the world under different systems and they do not all think alike. FS Brat 0948 15 May 2008 (UTC)