Talk:United States Department of Homeland Security

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[edit] Agencies

Could we have list of agencies under DHS?

[edit] What do they do?

I'd like to have a section about what DHS actually does. I'm kind of confused about the actual activities of the department. Quantumelfmage 00:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The lion's share of what DHS does is done by the agencies that fall within it -- the Coast Guard, the Secret Service, the TSA, FEMA, Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S Citizenship and Immigration Services, and a few others. Eddiefranklin 05:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Headquarters

I added the small paragraph on the DHS headquarters. If anybody has more info, that'd be good. Tooptoo 17:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sounds like White House PR

"Although controversial, the reforms instituted by the Department have been instrumental in undercovering several domestic terror plots."

I think this sentence needs to be removed if a source isn't cited. --user: Detroit journalist 12-7-05

I see no evidence behind this statement presented. Are there events and incidents that can be presented as proof for this claim, or is it boilerplate lifted from a government website/pamphlet? --anonymous user, 01:10, 12 September 2005

Another comment on this: note that to support this statement, while it is necessary to demonstrate that several domestic terror plots have been uncovered by DHS, this is not sufficient. It is also required to demonstrate that the reforms instituted by DHS or by the creation of DHS itself were "instrumental" in uncovering these plots. It is possible to imagine that plots have been uncovered, which would have been uncovered without the creation of DHS or its reforms. Revolver 23:02, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I would like to see these incidents discussed, or this sentence removed. Vivacissamamente 23:09, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree; that was the first thing I thought when I read that sentence. Source, please? If the DHS has actually done something good, I think it deserves more specific documentation. (n.b. I have consolidated some other comments about this sentence which were further down on this page.) --Woozle 00:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

"Partisan wrangling"? How is that NPOV, please? --Eloquence 16:20 Nov 26, 2002 (UTC)

Good catch. Corrected. Thanks. --Ed Poor


The sources for the budget and employee figures is an article published by FOXNEWS.com (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70974,00.html ). The employee figure (164,184) was rearched by adding up the employee figures of each department going into the DHS.

--hoshie

is the scary animated GIF on this USPTO page anything to do w/ the dep't, or is it just generic homeland security? it should be preserved for posterity in any case. Kwantus 17:51, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)

There was some vandalism I cleaned up. User_Talk:Watsonladd

[edit] Who initiated the change, the blues or reds

This article seem to say that democrats initiated the creation of DHS. I was under the impression DHS is purely the work of conservatives. Anyway, i think that is worth highlighting in the main article. "President Bush, resistant to early entreaties by Democrats to create the department after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, eventually embraced the idea -- but insisted on freedom from many existing civil service laws in assembling the new bureaucracy." [1]

The Democrats came up with the idea and pushed for it, and the Republicans opposed it. Then, just before the 2002 midterms, the Republicans removed workers rights protection fro the propsal and pushed for it, so they could look good in the elections and the Dems would look bad by having to fight their creation to protect its workers. Typical Republicans, playing election-day-grab with national securty.

[edit] History of the department

Shouldn't the history of the department before its creation be mentioned in the article? Wasn't it suggested originally in early 2001?

[edit] Article about USDHS, not Hurricane Katrina

I do not feel that the leading section of this article should be about Hurricane Katrina. Since it is about the DHS, it should have general information about the agency, such as structure, et cetera. Katrina response can be moved to a differnet location in the article. Penguincube 03:38, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DHS Seal

Anyone notice one of the eagle's wings is larger than the other?

[edit] a few changes 10/19/05

Modified the timeline for the Department's creation, citing March 1 as the date that the majority of DHS operations began (even though it officially came into existence on Jan 24). Also clarified the difference between the White House Office of Homeland Security and DHS.

Finally, removed the paragraph saying it is "only accountable to the executive." DHS is a fairly tranparent Federal Department accountable to the Congress. Comparing it to the KGB is unsupported as it is not a 'spying' agency -- it's a large federal bureaucracy.

Although State Security claims to be working on behalf of all US citizens, commoun sense tells me that it IS only accountable to His Imperial Majesty. And for the record, a better title would be the Department of Homereich Security. 63.146.46.202 03:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for your very useful "commoun" sense.

[edit] ==United States Office of Homeland Security==

Wouldn't it make sense to merge United States Office of Homeland Security into this page's History section? OK, so "...the office was superseded, but not replaced..." -- what's that supposed to mean? My dictionary says those 2 words are synonymous. And even if there is some technical difference, is there any practical difference? (A bit like Operation Desert Sword. Does anyone remember all 2 minutes of that?) Ewlyahoocom 19:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Ready.gov back into DHS

I proposed this merge because the segment on DHS seemed fine (and the Ready.gov version is a little out of date). Perhaps consider changing en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready.gov to a redirect to the DHS page or the DHS page Ready.gov section? +Johnson 09:20, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Disagree Ready.gov content can be easily updated, and it is notable in its own right. MPS 15:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Well then please expand the Ready.gov site to more than just a copy of what was on DHS and place a
Main article: Ready.gov
link in DHS where appropriate. I don't think there is any real reason to give Ready.gov its own article since there is not much information on it, and I feel that a redirect would suffice, but if you insist, it would be nice to make some changes to Ready.gov. +Johnson 19:25, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Link to Wikipedia from Ready.gov

What is this supposed to show? All you had to do to make that was put wikipedia at the end. If I wanted to, I could say Link to Myspace from Ready.gov. What is the purpose? +Johnson 23:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page is incomplete

Without a discussion of criticism, this page is incomplete. Right now it is POV, criticism section of Ready.gov was removed. +Johnson 05:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

>>>You are correct, this page is incomple because it should be named the Department of Homeland Treason!!! Give me Life, Liberty, and the Persuit to Happy...Equal Representation under the Law and Give the Native Americans their Homes Back!!! -V.


hey that's a valid point you can't have a npov if you only discuss the positive points of an organization, the bad things they did should be in there too 72.0.194.82 14:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC) wikipedia at domn dot net

[edit] Elections

Does anyone have any input on how elections are carried out in DHS? Who assigns or elects DHS Officials?

[edit] Appointment of DHS Leadership

DHS operates in the same manner as other Cabinet Departments (Treasury, Justice, Defense, etc.). Senior leadership (the Secretary and Deputy Secretary, Under Secretaries, Assistant Secretaries, etc.) are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. There are other political appointments at a lower level that do not require Senate confirmation. Many mid- to upper-level leadership positions are filled by career civil servants as well.

The only elected officials (I think) in the Executive Branch are the President and Vice President.


[edit] Request for article

I'm a bit confused on the differences between the US Department of Homeland Security and the US Department of Defense. It seems to me that both departments maintain similar functions, and I would like something in the article that further explains their differences.

Is this a serious question?--Wikiwriter706 17:30, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The name "Department of Defense" is a misnomer, as this department is entirely incapable of defending the USA -- it is organized for foreign operations, not domestic defense. A better name for DoD would be "Department of Overseas Military Adventures".

The Department of Homeland Security was created precisely because the "Department of Defense" was not organized to defend the USA. Unfortunately, the "Department of Homeland Security" is also incapable of defending the USA, although for other reasons ... 75.71.67.2 (talk) 02:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

This really seems like useless info. I think that a list of their operating agencies and bureaus would be much more useful, and more concise. Who really cares if DHS has a "Chief Human Capital Officer " or a "Deputy Assistant Secretary for Policy"; what really matters is that they run the Secret Service and Citizenship and Immigration Services, yet those appear at the bottom of the article. Cornell Rockey 12:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this point of view. I think this page needs to be better organized to be as succinct as possible. I think it is important that citizens have transparent understanding of what the DHS is and what it exists to accomplish. --Jaycorrales 07:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Updated. Should we seperate Administrative Organization from Major Agencies? Maybe they should be in separate sections. --Jaycorrales 23:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but you updated with the wrong info ... what was there before was accurate.

I added it as a separate section and cited my source. The list of agencies is probably more useful to the average person than a list of positions within the organization (as noted above). --Jaycorrales 22:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand your point, but the information you are using is out of date -- there's no longer a 'Directorate of Border and Transportation Security,' for example. (Your source refers to the way the Department was initially created, but it has since been reorganized - dhs.gov has the current org chart) I replaced the section with a list of the seven major operational agencies in DHS - I think that is the simplest way to do it. -- Ed

[edit] Global Warming

If our DHS is supposed to protect us against natural disasters on the homefront, shouldn't there be an arm of the department that deals with the risks of Global Warming? The last time I checked, Global Warming poses a clear and present danger to our national (and global) security. It seems that if we get stuck in the habit of just responding to natural disasters instead of trying to prevent them, we are in for a hard road ahead. --Jaycorrales 23:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Try the EPA.

Maybe the EPA should be under the DHS also, great idea! --Jaycorrales 22:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Section on "Effectiveness"

I've started a section entitled "Controversies". I think it's appropriate to include some assessment of DHS's effectiveness in its stated role in the article (the page seems kind of lame without it), but I'm not sure of the best way to do it. Obviously, what I've added is predominantly critical, although sourced. Anyone have thoughts about whether this sort of thing should be included, or about how to do so? Would also welcome sourced positive assessments of DHS for balance. MastCell 23:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fixed (probable) vandalism

There had been edits to this page (changing "Homeland" to "Homo" in several places) that were probably vandalism, but I have chosen to assume they were honest mistakes, as per WP:AGF. I fixed the damaged link on Cabinet and added a citation tag to the supposed nickname (which I have never heard of). Walton monarchist89 14:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Elevated" really means "normal"

When it comes to the color codes, we have NEVER dropped below yellow save Hawaii for a brief period. This means that our terrorist threat has always been either Elevated/Significant or High. And briefly "Severe" after the 2005 London attack.

Code Yellow loses its meaning when used as the de-facto normal level of terrorist threat. To me, Code Yellow really means "Normal: Moderate risk of terrorist activity." Not "elevated" or "significant." The Department is trying to make people more scared of terrorism than they need be, probably as a political tool. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comrade Sephiroth (talk • contribs) 18:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC).


[edit] No sourcing for alleged use of tens of thousands of temporary agents

There is no mention of this allegation in sources 13, 14, 15, 16. I recommend deletion of this passage:

"In November 2006 the DHS had also mobilized tens of thousands of temporarily hired agents to conduct surveillance and practice clandestine operations on a person living on disability in Long Beach, California. The operation lasted three months, reached Canada and Taiwan, and was estimated to have cost several hundreds of millions of dollars, and yet the person in question was later assessed to have no connection with threat activities. The case caused a sensation among the intelligence communities in three countries and the exposure of incompetence and massive waste on the part of DHS in the case."

Robert Stephen Spiegel 15:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DHS receives multiple Vandlism warnings

the above should not be included in the page. It is a so what. It only means that someone at that ip has been warned. --Jeanenawhitney (talk) 18:47, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Note about two edits

Pardon me, I have a conflict with editing this page because of outstandingly overdue feedback from what I sent to a public mailing list elsewhere. I am sorry for any error in my two edits here and do not plan to explain them unless necessary. Best wishes. -Susanlesch (talk) 22:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of agencies within the DHS?

Would a list of all of the agencies within the DHS belong in this article, or would a new page be better? Most people know that TSA and FEMA are part of DHS, but most don't know that the Secret Service and the Coast Guard are in there too. See http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/structure/#1 - JeffJonez (talk) 02:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)