Talk:Umami

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[edit] Umami?

Why exactly is it that the English Wikipedia uses a Japanese loanword as the main topic article of a sense of taste which the majority of all native English speakers know as "savory"? Never in my life have I heard the word "umami", until finding this page here. Why go about using a loanword when there's a suitable enough English word already? PaZuZu 13:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

It's because that's the word that's already used in the science. (Ever heard of Google?) It would be inappropriate for Wikipedia articles to invent terminology. Are you idiot or what? --192.139.122.66 17:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Although I disagree with the original point, it seems a valid issue to bring up. Insults are inappropriate; let's at least try to keep this forum civil. --Anonymous 18:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.58.203.54 (talk)
Savory is not an exact enough meaning to mean specifically basic taste. Many not umami-sensations color the word "savory". The disambiguation page is good enough. --Jonathan Williams 19:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
And as far as I know, you could get Umami sensors activated when you eat soy sauce for example. Same thing goes for some seaweed if I understand the article correctly. I've seen umami been used outside this article also, think it was in a science magazine. Anyway, I'd rather keep it like it is. There's plenty of loan words in the English language, so another one wouldn't change anything. Like ombudsman or smorgasbord... =) --84.217.112.254 01:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Just for reference, there has been a bit of a discussion of this issue over on the basic taste talk page (which has now been merged with taste - the link is to an archive of the page). --PhiJ 16:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial Link

The only cited link for this miracle new scientific discovery appears to be from a MSG Industry Pressure Group, spewing pro da about how MSG is really safe after all, honest guv. I'm not sure it's a reliable link at all.83.244.149.133 12:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I can see that. I've replaced the link with some docs from UofM research, but on the bad side, I also put a link to umamiinfo, which possibly only exists to sell cookbooks. Please take a look at the links and edit as needed. --Mdwyer 13:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Argh... the more I look around, the more it stresses me out. We should just copy most of what is found in the basic taste and monosodium glutamate articles over here... --Mdwyer 13:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

I'm moving this page to Umami because Umami is the much more commonly used spelling. It gets 23,200 google hits and Umame gets only 917 [1] Nohat 02:11, 2004 Mar 22 (UTC)

It also doesn't say much for the spelling "umame" for the fact that 8 of the top 10 google hits for it are Wikipedia or Wikipedia mirrors. [2] Nohat 03:56, 2004 Mar 22 (UTC)

[edit] Well

If I'm reading the article correctly, this isn't actually a taste in and of itself, but rather, a perception of the intensity of a taste.

So can it really be considered a separate flavor sensation at all?

I propose translating umami as zesty. And I claim there are six tastes, not five, oil being one of the six. lysdexia 16:32, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

To me umami does not taste zesty at all, its quite mellow, buy some MSG at an asian food market and see for yourself.

All the literature I've read suggests that its a basic taste, with its own taste receptors, and is not 'intensity' or 'zest'. I've never heard of taste receptors for oil. Maybe you could cite some research that supports your claims, since I can't find any.

--Johnkarp 00:17, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Discovered or Described?

If umami is "considered basic" in Chinese and Japanese cuisine, then how can it have been "discovered" in 1907? The second statement implies that umami had not been much noticed by anyone, anywhere until 1907 -- and in conjunction, the two statments suggest that Umami was discovered by Kikunae Ikeda and, in the following 100 years, became so incredibly popular in Chinese and Japaneese cooking that it gained widespread acknowledgement as a fifth basic taste.

For all I know, something like that may be the case, but I am skeptical. Surly the taste was "discovered" by Japanese and Chinese cooks long ago, and then later formally or scientifically described as one of the five basic tastes by Kikunae Ikeda. Could someone who knows more than me about this clarify this article? Solemnavalanche 06:01, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Addendum: after some basic Wikipedia research, I realized that both I and the article were mistaken. "Umami" was not discovered in 1907; monosodium glutamate was. I've fixed the error. Solemnavalanche 07:56, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The taste has been "known" for thousands of years. It was only "discovered" in the chemical sense in 1908... It would be like, for example, everyone knows what chilli-taste is, but then one day someone isolates the acid responsible for it. It wouldn't be "discovering" the taste per se. Is there a better way to describe this process? --Sumple (Talk) 00:18, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
He "isolated" the taste? MMetro 20:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Change of number of basic tastes

I changed "5 basic tastes" to 7 because that's what it says in the general Basic Tastes article. --Coolbho3000 12:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Discovery of receptors section

"The researchers called 'taste-mGluR4'." is not a complete sentence.

I've just edited the sentence. Roaming27 05:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the part: "The discovery of the [umami] receptor is interesting especially since the receptor for bitter has not yet been identified." This for two reasons: I could not find any reference to this fact in the wikipedia basic tastes main article, and there were no outside referece to this claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.214.3.201 (talk)

It's wrong as well - the bitter receptors are T2R receptors, and I think that means they identified the gene locus for them... Thanks for that. Why did you delete the 'what exactly is umami' external link though? --PhiJ 21:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

i re-deleted the part saying that the bitter receptor has not been identified as it says that it has been in the basic tastes main article under bitter. I know this isn't the most accurate way of comparing things, so if anyone can check whether there is proof that the bitter receptor has been discovered that would be helpful. Though on the otherhand it's best to leave it out altogether as its not relevant to the article and why is it interesting to people looking at unami? It suggests that bitter is a more important taste

[edit] Edit summary mistake

When I wrote 'rv to version by 70.44.196.93' in my recent edit summary of the main umami page, I meant 'rv to version by 82.214.3.201'. Sorry. --PhiJ 21:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing 'negative effects' section

The two paragraphs of 'Negative effects' are lifted wholesale from the Excitotoxicity article. The negative effects of glutamate aren't really relevant to an article about the sensation of its flavor, so I've replaced them with a single sentance that just acknowleges that there are negative effects. --Dcfleck 17:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Uh oh, hrm there seems to be a discrepency and I didn't realize it was removed seriously, BUT this information is new to wikipedia and it needs a home. I'd like to find out where it goes rather than removing it from the books completely. Klichka (talk) 08:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dcfleck. That section on "Negative effects" is inappropriate for the article on umami. Reviewing the published medical literature this morning, it is evident that a link to glutamate receptors is part of the umami sensation, but this does not imply high glutamate release that would be excitotoxic. The section should be deleted wholesale. Also, I would even dispute that a "negative effects" section should be associated with umami. There is no evidence I can see that strong umami sensation is associated with toxicity.
Klichka -- if you search Wikipedia for "neurotoxicity", there are many places where the glutamate work has been discussed similarly to the description in the umami article. Reviewing those links, one can conclude that this "Negative effects" section certainly does not belong here. --Paul144 (talk) 15:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
It's also discussed in the Monosodium Glutamate article, which is linked from here --PhiJ (talk) 16:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wall Street Journal article: A New Taste Sensation

A New Taste Sensation. TfB (talk) 23:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)