Talk:UEFA Cup Winners' Cup
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
The article on UEFA Cup Winners' Cup is supported by the WikiProject on Football, which is an attempt to improve the quality and coverage of Association football related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page; if you have any questions about the project or the article ratings below, please consult the FAQ. |
|---|---|
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. |
| Mid | This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale. |
[edit] FLAGS
I have noticed in the table of past finalists that the clubs from the former East Germany (FC Magdeburg, Carl Zeiss Jena) have old East German flags next to them but the clubs from the former Soviet Union (Dynamo Kiev, Dynamo Tbilisi, Dynamo Moscow) have their current national flags (Ukraine, Georgia, Russia) instead of the old Soviet flag. Could this be consistent? Either the current German flag should be used for the German teams or the old Soviet flag for the former Soviet teams. Seeing as the teams represented these former Soviet bloc countries at the time of their victories, I think the old flags should be used throughout, but I thought I'd try to get a consensus, if anyone is interested.Largo1965 15:00, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- To my mind, the flags should be those of the countries the clubs represented when they won the trophy. Perhaps in the list of all-time winners and stats the individual flags of Ukraine, Georgia etc can be used, but I don't think they should be for the individual final results. When Dinamo Kiev won the CWC in '75 and '86, they represented the Soviet Union as Soviet cup winners, there was no professional Ukrainian cup, so it's misleading to use the Ukrainian flag, some readers could wrongly conclude that Kiev won the CWC as Ukranian Cup winners. In the list of all-time winners, perhaps its acceptable to use the flags of the independent states, but it shouldn't be for the list of finals. MarkB79 13:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the flags back to those of the countries these teams represented. I appreciate that some Ukrainians, Georgians etc. may prefer to have their own national flags next to Kiev and Tbilisi and so on, but I think its misleading to put a Ukrainian flag next to Kiev as they represented the Soviet Union, not Ukraine, at the time when they won the CWC. To do so runs against all standard proceedure in any football stats book I have ever seen, even more so to seperately list Ukraine as having won 2 CWC's, Georgia 1 etc., these countries did not even have their own domestic cup competitions at the time. These teams qualified as Soviet Cup winners. If at some point in the future there is a united British league or a united Benelux league, we would hardly list Rangers as having represented Great Britain instead of Scotland in 1972, or list Ajax as representing Benelux in 1987, it would be historically inaccurate and misleading to readers. Possibly there could be a compromise where a Ukrainian flag could be featured in brackets next to the Soviet flag in Kiev's case and similar for other Soviet, Czechoslovak and East German teams, similar to the way AS Monaco has a Monaco flag in brackets next to the French flag, or perhaps there should simply be a footnote at the bottom of the table detailing which independent states these teams now represent. MarkB79 20:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Attendance record (negative)
In the notable teams section, the article states that the Dinamo Tblisi vs Jena match was the least-attended final. However, there are numbers that put the 1974 AC Milan vs Magdeburg final even below this, at some 4,700. Can anyone city any proof for either number, because I cannot. --Madcynic 21:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
- I have heard before that the 1981 Tbilisi-Jena final had only around 3,000 spectators but according to the RSSSF stats website here [1], the attendance was actually 9,000. Furthermore, the site also claims that the 1974 Magdeburg-Milan final attracted only 4,000 spectators and the 1964 Sporting Lisboa-MTK Budapest final in Brussels only 3,000 (though bizarrely the replay in a much smaller stadium in Antwerp then attracted 19,000). RSSSF tends to be regarded as the definitive stats website but they have changed a couple of their attendance figures for CWC finals over the years, the 1985 Everton-Rapid Wien final has had different attendances listed on there, from 38,000 to 50,000. Seems that nobody really knows for sure how many people attended some CWC finals but RSSSF is probably the most realible source online. MarkB79 01:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Tournament name
Strange that, on reflection, both of the common names for this tournament were ambiguous. UEFA Cup Winners' Cup could be for winners of the UEFA Cup while European Cup Winners' Cup could mean that it was for winners of the European Cup. I'm not sure there's any point to my post - it was just something that occurred to me. --Jameboy (talk) 21:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
