Talk:UEFA Cup 2008-09

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[edit] Putting teams into the article

Maybe we should only put teams into the article after they actually clinch the spot for the tournament. Kingjeff (talk) 15:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It's an appropriate place to toe the line, and it avoids any complicated notes. We should make it a policy for the Intertoto and CL pages too. Aheyfromhome (talk) 14:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid that I can't find any reasons that support this movement. It's neither good nor bad to add the teams before they clinch the spot. So I can't find any problems to add the teams. On the other hand, this movement cause some unnecessary changes already(E.g: remove the cup winner of Faroe Island). --Yick50907551 (talk) 10:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It's simpler. What if teams win the league and win the Cup. Do they get both UEFA Cup and Champions League spots? What if they win the fair play award from their league? Do they get a UEFA Cup fair play spot? What if Bayern wins the German cup and gets the Intertoto Cup spot. Which one do they get? The point is that it's not as simple as saying that they win a spot in Champions league, uefa cup or intertoto cup if they finish in a certain spot in a domestic league, domestic cup or european cup. Kingjeff (talk) 17:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

If Bayern win the German cup and get the Intertoto Cup spot, then they would qualify for the UEFA Cup and the Intertoto spot would go to the next team. In answer to your question, the team would recieve the highest spot (e.g. Champions League instead of Uefa Cup). Eddie6705 (talk) 17:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I was just pointing out that it's not as simple as saying that a specific spot in in domestic competitions = a specific spot in European competitions. Kingjeff (talk) 17:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It's not black-and-white, for sure, but it can be simple enough. There is an order to the importance of European slots - a hierarchy, if you like. It is thus:
  1. Champions League through league position
  2. UEFA Cup through Cup win
  3. UEFA Cup through league position
  4. UEFA Cup through Fair Play
  5. Intertoto Cup through league position (assuming application)
While this may make it seem over-complicated, it means we can make things simpler - if a club is in a CL position, they shouldn't be mentioned here. If they applied for Intertoto it makes no difference here, as UEFA Cup takes preference. You can make logical deductions easily enough and use them to remove uncertainty as you mentioned.
That said, I remain in support of only adding teams after they conclusively take a UEFA Cup slot. Falastur2 (talk) 21:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

How simple it is is really up to the reader. Therefore, having multiple teams in one spot can make out like all of those teams have qualified. Kingjeff (talk) 22:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inter-Wiki project idea

I came up with an idea of having an inter-wiki project for Champions League, UEFA Cup and UEFA Intertoto Cup. The idea is we can have match reports from Wikinews and use them on Wikipedia article for 2008-09 Champions League, 2008-09 UEFA Cup and 2008 UEFA Intertoto Cup. There should be no sourcing issues since there is a requirement of 2 sources per match report.

  1. This is an inter-promotion thing for Wikimedia Foundation.
  2. All match reports would be of the same standard.
  3. The standard NPOV will be in the match reports as required by Wikinews and Wikipedia.

There will be 213 matches for Champions League, 359 UEFA Cup matches, 78 Intertoto Cup matches for a total of 650 matches. Therefore, there will be a number of people needed to do this. If you're interested or have any questions or comments, you can ask them here or if you would like to sign-up, you can go here. Don't write how this is too big or a bad idea. This is to survey to see how viable this is. However, if you have some constructive comment or question, then feel free to add. Kingjeff (talk) 21:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Early issue

I moved the Early Issue section because it's better to see it at the top then inbetween the first round and final. 76.67.62.25 (talk) 05:46, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] English Club controversy

Do we need the English clubs controversy section? Surely the section would only be relevant if Cardiff had qualified for the UEFA, which they haven't. KyleRGiggs recently added a hidden comment saying it shows the future of the Welsh teams playing in England. How does it? Surely we should have the section when a Welsh side actually wins the FA Cup, not when they haven't. --OZOO (Whaddya think, sirs?) 10:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, sorry for changing the name here, because Giggs for Temporary is me, who was temporary suspended due to compromising of the account, I have said before. It is easier to reach my user talk page if I make that change. Sorry for be rude. :) Raymond Giggs 12:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Back to the topic, it is still worthy to mention. Despite Cardiff City will not qualify to the UEFA Cup, Platini has interrupted before. The interruption is worthy to mention enough. On the other hand, it really shows the future of the three Welsh teams playing in England. Platini's statement has clearly stated that he is strongly supporting Cardiff City's place, and The FA finally succumbed, and promised that Cardiff City may get a UEFA Cup ticket if they win the FA Cup. It may (not must) means that all Welsh clubs playing in England could allow to get a UEFA competition ticket by English competition in the future. Raymond Giggs 12:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
However, to reduce the arguments on "The future of the Welsh clubs", I removed those words, just keep the words "Do not remove this session". Raymond Giggs 12:16, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FC Nordsjælland

FC Nordsjælland have been added as the Danish fair-play representive. Is this sourced to anything? The present source only mentions Denmark, not the team. --OZOO (Whaddya think, sirs?) 10:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

You're right. According to the amateurs website by Bert Kassies, no team is confirmed. But Nordsjælland and Copenhagen would get this spot. I suppose the contributor who added Nordsjælland is because Copenhagen got a UEFA Cup ticket. I have no idea for including this team or not. Raymond Giggs 12:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Let's not forget that the Danish season isn't even over yet... Falastur2 (talk) 15:22, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
If there's no source, it shouldn't be added. Verifiablity, not truth. OZOO (Whaddya think, sirs?) 16:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, agree. Raymond Giggs 05:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Source for Danish fair-play competition: http://www.dbu.dk/sr/poolFairPlayPosition.aspx?poolid=52169. 33rd and last week of games will be this weekend. Hockey-holic (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification of Rep. of Ireland teams needed

I noticed that both IRL teams are listed as unseeded first qualification round teams. However, St Patricks have been put in the table for second qualification round teams. Since I assume that Irish FA teams are not allowed to get directly into the second round, is this a case of wrong placement? 91.36.192.161 (talk) 10:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

You are correct, Irish teams enter at the first qualifying round. It seems someone moved the last row of the first qualifying round to the last row of the second, I have fixed it now. - MTC (talk) 11:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Hungarian participants set

MTK Budapest won their game against Rákospalotai EAC tonight. With MTK playing Sopron this weekend (see www.kicker.de) and all matches of Sopron being counted as won for their opponents (see Sopron's wiki page for details), MTK cannot be moved from 1st place any more. So, the "Hungarian picture" looks like the following:

MTK Budapest: Clinched CL qualification spot
Debreceni VSC: Clinched UEFA Cup qualification spot
Honvéd Budapest: Earned spot of Hungarian Cup winner because they play Debrecen in the finals - Edited: Honvéd not in, see below Hockey-holic (talk) 11:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Since this constellation is immovable now, can all Hungarian participants be assigned to their respective cups? Hockey-holic (talk) 22:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone edited my changes from Honvéd to the 3rd placed teams in the Soproni Liga.

Why?

The Runners up in the Hungarian Cup gets the spot, not the 3rd placed team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.31.185 (talk) 04:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Once again someone edited in the 3rd placed club in the League.

Anyone else caught doing this, and I will move to have the page protected to prevent further vandalising.

Someone doesn't seem to understand that :

1. Cup has not been decided. Would Honvéd prevail and win the cup, they would automatically qualify (Unlikely given first leg ended 7-0 for Debrecen) 2. Because Debrecen already have taken 2nd place, they are ineligible to also take the Cup Winners spot. Therefore if they win the Cup, the runners up get the UEFA Cup spot that the winners normally receive.

NOT the 3rd placed club in the Hungarian League.

Do NOT edit in the 3rd placed team again, it will be deemed vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.192.207 (talk) 18:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


Since those edits back and forth are annoying, I looked for UEFA's participation criteria for domestic cup winners. To sum it up: The losing cup finalist will gain the spot If and only if the winner has qualified for UEFA Champions League. In all other cases, the spot will be awarded to the team finishing right behind the regular UEFA Cup spots. Taken this fact, and Honvéd losing 7-0 in the 1st leg of the Cup finals, Győri ETO FC are all but qualified for the UEFA Cup. Hockey-holic (talk) 11:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Here are some dates

  • June 27, 2008 draw for 1st qualifying round of the UEFA Cup
  • July 17, 2008 1st qualifying round UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • July 31, 2008 1st qualifying round UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • August 1, 2008 draw for 2nd qualifying round of the UEFA Cup
  • August 14, 2008 2nd qualifying round UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • August 28, 2008 2nd qualifying round UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • August 29, 2008 draw for 1st round UEFA Cup
  • September 18, 2008 1st round UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • October 2, 2008 1st round UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • October 7, 2008 draw for UEFA Cup group stage
  • October 23, 2008 1st matchday UEFA Cup group stage
  • November 6, 2008 2nd matchday UEFA Cup group stage
  • November 27, 2008 3rd matchday UEFA Cup group stage
  • December 3/4, 2008 4th matchday UEFA Cup group stage
  • December 17/18, 2008 5th matchday UEFA Cup group stage
  • December 19, 2008 draw for 3rd and 4th round UEFA Cup
  • February 18/19, 2009 3rd round UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • February 26, 2009 3rd round UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • March 12, 2009 4th round UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • March 18/19, 2009 4th round UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • March 20, 2009 draw for quarter-finals and semi-finals UEFA Cup
  • April 9, 2009 Quarter Finals UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • April 16, 2009 Quarter Finals UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • April 30, 2009 Semi Finals UEFA Cup, 1st leg
  • May 7, 2009 Semi Finals UEFA Cup, 2nd leg
  • May 20, 2009 Final UEFA Cup (Istanbul) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.82.83 (talk) 18:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cup winner spot, Serbia

First, thanks to Isavevski for coming up with the source. According to this article, FK Zemun have not gained an UEFA license in order to participate in this year's UEFA Cup. They have ten days to appeal this decision. If the ruling still stands after that, their spot of being the losing domestic Cup finalists will be awarded to 4th placed Borac Cacak.Hockey-holic (talk) 21:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Zemun's appeal has failed, meaning that Borac will advance to the UEFA Cup and OFK Beograd taking their Intertoto Cup spot. Hockey-holic (talk) 14:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgarian participants

If CSKA does not regain its UEFA license, there will be no CL participant from Bulgaria this year. Thus, Levski, Litex and Locomotiv Sofia would remain in the UEFA Cup.

Source:

See also the Champions League talk page.

Hockey-holic (talk) 09:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)