Talk:TWA Flight 800 alternative theories

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This article was nominated for deletion on 6 September 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

[edit] IAMAW section

The IAMAW section doesn't belong on the alternative theories page. The IAMAW was a party to the investigation and submitted it's report based on the facts as they saw them. The report offers NO "alternate theory" perse and so states that the precise cause of the crash could not be determined. Author51 02:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I did wonder if it would be best in the main article, which focuses on the NTSB investigation, of which the IAMAW was an invited party (their report is included in the official docket). However since the IAMAW report disagrees with the most fundamental finding of the NTSB Final Report, the probable cause, that reason for the TWA 800 crash was an explosion of the CWT (they state that the CWT exploded AFTER the aircraft started to break up), I think it qualifies as an alternative theory. They probably are due mention in the main article as an official dissenter. Lipsticked Pig 07:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Fine, let's do that then. Of course this entire page has been selected for deletion, so it appears there is no legitimate way to offer anything other than the "official position." That means of course that the IAMAW submission will never see the light of day, to many who may rely on this rather dubious source of information, called Wikipedia. Author51 13:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section Titles: using names of people?

Just wondering if there is a better way to title these sections? I'd prefer to see them titled with something that describes the theory maybe (name could be included). Is this possible? Strawberry Island 20:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] News

Govt's case fades............ as Lahr pounds away in FOIA suit vs. NTSB, CIA et al

"the district court found that "the government acted improperly in its investigation of Flight 800, or at least performed in a grossly negligent fashion." V # 104 at 1110. The court properly reviewed the evidence cumulatively, "taken together."

LAHR vs. NTSB, et al

http://www.scientificblogging.com/applied_reason Author51 23:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

This happened over a year ago, its not exactly breaking news. And this misquote, taken entirely out of context, does not convey at all what the judge meant. Judge Matz's rulings were on Rahy Lahr's right to request documents that the goverment denied him per his FOIA requests. His rulings relate to FOIA statutes and previous case law, NOT the legitimacy of his theory on the cause of the TWA 800 crash.

In his intial ruling of August 31, 2006 he wrote: "The ensuing summary characterizes the evidence in a light most favorable to the Plaintiff, but does not reflect or constitue any finding by the court. (emphasis Judge Matz's)

He further states: "For the purpose of determing whether Exemption 7(C) (and other FOIA provisions) are applicable, and only for that purpose, the Court finds that, taken together, this evidence is sufficient to permit Plaintiff to proceed based on his claim that the goverment acted improperly in its investigation of Flight 800, or at least performed in a grossly negligent fashion. Accordingly, the public interest in ferreting out the truth would be compelling indeed."

Almost as if he is speaking directly to Fiorentino, in his second ruling issued October 4, 2006 Judge Matz repeats: "In adopting here its previous finding that the evidence is sufficient to suggest that the goverment acted improperly in its investigation of Flight 800 (or at least performed in a grossly negligent fashion), the Court reiterates that this conclusion is based on a characterization of the evidence most in the light favorable to the Plaintiff, but does not reflect or constitute any finding by the court."

duh... Lipsticked Pig 10:34, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

....."the Court reiterates that this conclusion is based on a characterization of the evidence most in the light favorable to the Plaintiff.." And WHY do you suppose the court said that? Let me answer my own question. Because the government offered no opposition to Lahr's three statements of Genuine Issue. (see below) Author51 12:39, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Right you are....almost. I most wanted to quote from the Lahr's opening brief in his appeal before the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, except I couldn't find any reference acceptable to Wiki.

But let me do that anyway: (excerpts)

SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT

.............." First, and foremost, the Court must consider plaintiff's proffer regarding fraud, cited in his three Statements of Genuine Issue. Because the government submitted no response to this proof, plaintiff's allegations of fraud and cover-up are uncontroverted and must be viewed as conceded." Gee Mr. Pig, you seem to know more about this case than you want to admit. (apparently) Author51 20:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Message from Ray Lahr Rec'd 9/11/2007

The Ninth District Federal Court ruled that the CIA and NTSB should give me most of the information cited in my FOIA request. The agencies are appealing that decision, and we are filing a cross-appeal. Attached is our Opening Brief which is being submitted today. Ray Author51 20:40, 14 September 2007 (UTC)