Talk:Turkey-PKK conflict

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The article 2007 Turkish incursion into Iraq was nominated for deletion. The debate was closed on June 15 2007 with a consensus to merge the content into Turkey-PKK conflict. If the merger is not completed promptly, 2007 Turkish incursion into Iraq might be re-nominated for deletion.

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[edit] Move war

I think the move suggestion has a point. "Israeli-Palestinian" or "Turkish-Kurdish" terms are subjective. It implies a complete war between ethnicities as if two uniform fronts exist. In the Turkey vs PKK conflict that isn't the case. I believe there are plenty of Palestinians with Israeli citizenship living normal lives outside of the west bank. How about a rename to "Turkey-Armed Rebels conflict" or "Turkey-Kurdish Armed Rebels conflict" or perhaps a better title along the lines better establishing each side. Same should be applied to the "Israeli-Palestinian" thing. -- Cat chi? 12:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking it was more known or more easy to find with the current name. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 17:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, I don't think they will change to the Israeli-Palestinian one. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 18:02, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Current is relative :) We can do better than we are doing. "Better known" isn't always the best title. The clash isn't really an ethnic one. Turkish can mean "a citizen of turkey". Most PKK rebels were Turkish citizens even though they were uprising against their government. I merely want to better identify the sides. -- Cat chi? 18:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with User:White Cat, We can always give a link from that title, if making it easier to find is all the deal. Kerem Özcan 17:32, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

i think this article and redirection are subjective. There is Turkey-PKK Conflict. PKK dont present The Kurdish People. and also Turkey dont conflict the kurdish people. this article try to seem Turkey-PKK Conflict as Turkish-Kurdish ethnicity conflict. More Kurdish people lives in Turkey and dont support PKK. We know the PKK try to their illegal works(narkotic traffic to europe, works for some countries' illegal operations, this area have rich patrol) to legalize. The illegal terrorist organization(in the list) seems to war for the Kurdish People for this way. there are poor kurdish people this area as all over Turkey. PKK created these poor people to attack the government's services and peoples. PKK also threats the kurdish people. I think Turkey-PKK Conflict will be true--Qwl 14:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The PKK was not the only armed Kurdish group fighting against the Turkish state, thus that title would be inaccurate. - Francis Tyers · 15:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I corroborate your idea. PKK threats Iran, Syria and Iraq too. Turkey-PKK, Iran-PKK, Syria-PKK, Iraq-PKK conflicts take part under PKK activities in Middle East or only PKK activities. --Qwl 16:33, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
There isn't Turkey-Kurdish conflict in the world. I support Qwl the true is Turkey-PKK Conflict.--Absar 10:14, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Yet, this article only deals with PKK and rightfully so. No need to generalize, especially in a way that will give false impressions. Anyway we almost only have the background section. We don't even have a lead section. DenizTC 12:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
PKK is in terrorist organization lists. We can say PKK=Terrorist Organization and PKK militants=Terrorist but we cant say Kurds=Terrorist. It is same as El Qaida=Terrorist Organization and El Qaida militants=Terrorists but we cant say Afghans=Terrorists. El Qaida also refuse Terrorist expression same as PKK :). It is SIMPLE. Why there is an EFFORT to suppose a Turkish-Kurdish ethnicity conflict???? I SUSPECT a manipulation. --Qwl 20:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

why I wrote these? There is a only Turkey-PKK conflict for Turkey. Why dont we write about Iran-PKK conflict. There are attacks to Iran, Turkey, Syria, Iraq. This problem is not only about TURKEY/TURKISH and KURDS. I said before More Kurdish people lives in Turkey and dont support PKK. There is a manipulation for different interests.--Qwl 21:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Timeline

Do we have an article for the timeline of the conflict? DenizTC 12:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

"According to an article printed in the November 2002 issue of the International Socialist, monthly paper of the International Socialists, during the conflict (and still [as of 2002]), the Turkish army tortured, killed and “disappeared” civilians.[8] In 1997, Amnesty International (AI) reported that, "'Disappearances' and extrajudicial executions have emerged as new and disturbing patterns of human rights violations ..." by the Turkish state.[9] According to an earlier (1996) report of AI, "in January 1996 the [Turkish] government announced that the PKK had massacred 11 men near the remote village of Guclukonak. Seven of the victims were members of the local village guard force. Independent investigations suggested that the massacre was the work of the security forces".[10] (see false flag)"

The above paragraph is in the introduction. Though it's good to voice opinion on both sides of the conflict, this paragraph solely attacks the Turkish Government, with almost zero mention of the PKK. Despite this, it may be an appropriate response to the paragraph before it, which lists PKK human rights violations. However in their respective articles you aren't supposed to list information on the other. There are criticism sections or pages that can be created on the Turkish Government and PKK pages for that purpose.

For example, a rebut to the list of PKK human rights violations (which doesn't mention the Turkish Government) could be a list of the positive accomplishments of the PKK. --Exander 04:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I think they can stay here (or be moved to PKK), but we should create a section for them, a title might be "Criticism". DenizTC 18:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Please note that someone changed the words of the HRW letter to the Italian president, watering down significantly its criticism of rights violations by Turkish security forces, e.g. changing "serious violations" to "minimal violations", replacing "torture, extrajudicial killings" with "interrogations", and changing "we continue to demand" to "we continue to suggest". This is not only dishonest but silly since there is a link to the original document. I have restored the original text, but I wonder for how long...

[edit] A naming issue..

It should be Turkish-PKK conflict as IMO is more appropriate (gramm.) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

But would be POV implying an ethnic clash which isn't the case. -- Cat chi? 15:02, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
not, Turkish is adjective of Turkey --TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Is the adjective of PKK, PKK? Turkish-PKKish conflict does not sound nice. DenizTC —Preceding comment was added at 20:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, that's the first time I hear abbrevations have adjective forms . . . --TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Then, you should probably suggest Turkey-PKK conflict, as "adjective-noun" would be quite weird. I don't think it is exactly about abbreviations as well, as Turkish-Kurdistan Workers' Party-ish does not sound good either. I don't see such problems with Turkey-PKK conflict. DenizTC 17:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I suggested a proposal to merge October 7, 2007 Yüksekova incident into this article. I don't think that Wikipedia should have an article for each border conflict. In the context of the larger conflict, however, I feel that the issue is more than notable enough to be included into this article. Martijn Hoekstra 10:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

As a different suggestion, how about we go in the same style as that article, and make one article per year for the incidents? Martijn Hoekstra 21:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Worst? It was a succesfull military operation with no civilian casualties. It just a normal part of any conflict. I support Merge. Carewolf 20:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge both October 2007 attacks but not with this article. Those lovely "successfull military operations" should stay together. DenizTC 18:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is all turkish political and military propaganda, it does not provide any serious or interesting information, this is the better way to make the wikipedia a bad and unreliable source. A Pity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.125.25.232 (talk) 16:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you at least read the article? DenizTC 18:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I wanted to notify everyone that those two October attacks are merged, per a parallel discussion. DenizTC 02:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

In my view treat it as any guerrilla war or insurgency. o call it the "Turkish Insurgency", or "Turkish Civil Conflict" or "PKK Insurgency" or "PKK Conflict". Just look at other conflicts around the world and take a note (most of the above is how i hear the Colombian war phrased). I would say that "PKK Insurgency" is most appropriate since the pkk operates and fights in Syria, Iraq, and Iran as well. The conflict is in this sense much brauder than Turkey, even if the violence centers there. In my view.

[edit] New article

Shouldn't there be an article called "War in Kurdistan". Many sources speak of the war in kurdistan [1], a lot more than the "turkey-pkk conflict [2] and many books also speak of the "war in kurdistan". The turkish-pkk conflict is only part -although the biggest part- of a long ongoing conflict. - PietervHuis (talk) 17:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)