Talk:Tukong moosul

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[edit] Who disputes this?

"Although highly disputed, some contend the roots of Tukong run much deeper, and its origins can be traced back many generations, to the Dae Yeon Sa Temple in South Korea."

I am not sure if this statement is true...The wiki stylesheet requires references for statements like this...I will remove it in the meantime... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tvinson (talk • contribs) 21:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

In the current version of this article, a "non-official" branch of Tukkong is mainly described. For the official version, see http://www.tukkong.com/. I put a link in the references for http://www.tukkong.com/, and was subsequently removed without explanation. As far as I know, Tukkong does not have links to ancient forms of martial arts.

The Korea World Tukkong Association (KWTA) is the caretaker of Tukkong. User:Simosx 01:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

This is disputed. Please provide documentation of the official capacity of the KWTA over Tukong Moosul as opposed to the WTMF. I believe there is confusion as to what the article is discussing. This article is pertaining to "Tukong Moosul," not the previous version known as "Tukkong," which was a predecesor to Tukong Moosul. --Wikisystole 01:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Above I mention "is the caretaker of Tukkong". Of course I meant "is the caretaker of Tukkong Moosul". I believe we have the situation in Tukkong Moosul that more than one entity use the same name though they are independent from each other. Who is the more "original" than the other? My money would go for KWTA because they have several members from the original team that created Tukkong Moosul, and they are still training the forces in South Korea and elsewhere. I would dare to guess that there was disagreement between Master Yi and the other people from the original unit that developed Tukkong Moosul that led to the split. In bussines terms, WTMF is doing an amazing job in commercialising the martial art in the US, but the split makes both groups suffer. Other martials arts appear to have a similar fate. Simosx 13:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Dispute over two styles of Tukong / Tukkong

Currently, there are two main sources dealing with Tukong online (www.tukkong.com and www.masteryi.com). While www.tukkong.com is the website for the "Korea World Tukkong Association," www.masteryi.com is the website for the "World Tukong Moosul Federation." The important destinction is in refernce to region. The former (www.tukkong.com) is technically a regional website for a world system, while the latter (www.masteryi.com) is a global website for Tukong not limited to Korea. I believe that the latter probably supercedes the former in the debate between which style and/or source(s) are the official doctrine as it applies to the english Wiki. Both styles have the same origins, they are just taught in differing regions of the world. The actual styles and techniques are identical, or nearly so. I don't believe, however, that either one has significant precedence over the other. Both should be included in the article and neither should be viewed as a "non-official" branch. Due to the fact that this is the english Wiki, I think the english version may have slightly more relevant information. On the Korean Wiki, the opposite should probably be true. Any thoughts? --Wikisystole 16:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

www.tukkong.com appears to cater for the international audience as well. See tukkong international activities. You may have to use a web translator to make sense of the korean text. My understanding is that KWTA is not focusing on training individuals, thus the low international visibility. At the link there is reference to two people that do trainings outside Korea. Simosx 23:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Additional sources confirming Gandmaster Yi

Black Belt Magazine and several other sources have confirmed that Wonik Yi is the founder and principal master of Tukong. Please see http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/375?print=1 --Wikisystole 01:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advertisement Tag Removed

This article does not show sustainable reason to be considered advertising. The history, style, and information regarding Grand Master Yi are available at http://www.masteryi.com. Tukong Moosul is a modern martial art, and therefore has origins with living people (primarily the creator of the art - Grand Master Yi). The fact that Grandmaster Yi is still alive and continues to instruct does not justify the criteria for advertising. --Wikisystole 16:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The tone of the article is promotional, sounding like it is trying to recruit, weather of not the founder is alive is pretty much irrelevant. In addition the link is a primary source, useful for only undisputed info. --Nate1481( t/c) 11:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
    • If anything, it should be reviewed for copyright violations. Some of the article is copied from www.masteryi.com. This may be why it has a promotional feel to it. I am in the process of revising it to remove any potential flagrant violations of copyright, and increase the neutrality. So far I have removed about 50% of the possible copyright infractions, up though the Dae Yeon Sa Temple history... --Wikisystole 01:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I should have figured it was a cleaned up copy & paste, if your cleaning up I'll leave you to it but things like training special forces need secondary sources to support them.--Nate1481( t/c) 09:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I have cleaned up some more of the copy/paste, however after contacting associates of Grandmaster Wonik Yi regarding the use of their electronically published information, is it possible to leave some of the information in it's original state provided it is done so with permissions given expressly by the author/publisher, or does it all have to be paraphrased? Thanks --Wikisystole 20:28, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Help Please

    • Help with inline citations

I have a reference for all of the citations that need to be placed, however I don't know how to link directly to the paragraphs of the external pages that they reside on. I have a link which includes the entire history, but it is .php and I can't seem to get the citations to link directly to paragraphs within those pages. Any assistance? The information is at http://www.masteryi.com/history.php. Once the inline citations are placed for the information contained on that page, the citation criteria should be met to be able to remove the citation tag. Thanks... Wikisystole 16:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Tag Removed

    • I have inserted the inline citations, however I can not get them to order correctly in the ref list. All of the current citations are from a single web page, but the twelve references used on that page are all duplicate links (all of the citations come from that page). Please help reduce the inline cites to either a single inline citation to the primary URL or help me link directly to the specific sections of the page that is cited. --Wikisystole 01:37, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Tidied up the refs for you, WP:CITE has more info if you needed it. I don't know if it's possible to link to specific part of an external page probably not. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the help - there are a few scripting errors in there now that I will clean up here in a minute. A few of the citations got rewired during the cleanup I think. I also plan to add several additional third party sources to decrease any bias and increase assertiveness of notability. --Wikisystole 15:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
    • I have a total of five (5) sources now, including primary and third party relating to the history of Tukong Moosul and Master Wonik Yi. I have temporarily removed the tag indicating there are no third party references. If there is debate as to whether this is still not enough, please let me know and I will find more sources. Much of the personal biography of Wonik Yi is an autobiography, and only he know's his own life's story, so it is hard to find third pary sources regarding his life's work. However, on much of the other history of Tukong, I have included third party sources... Thanks --Wikisystole 02:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

My biggest problem is the special forces training claims etc. These NEED reliable secondary sources or should be removed. Historical climes are less of an issue but should still have secondary sources.--Nate1481( t/c) 10:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

It is difficult to find resources on this on the english Net. You can find hints such as this, where the author says As members of Special Forces, they had also received considerable training in the Korean military combatant techniques known as "Tuk Kong Mu Sul." Simosx 22:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Adding here another reference, Martial Arts of the world, which mentions Tukong Mu Sool 1978. South Korea Won Ik Yi This is a military fighting art taught to Korean Special Forces. Simosx 23:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the additional links to source material. Continuing to build ref list and clean up copy/paste... --Wikisystole 20:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)