Talk:Tucker Max

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by the Arts and Entertainment work group.

	Chicago Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chicago, which aims to improve all articles related to Chicago.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination did not succeed. For older candidates, please check the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Archived nominations.

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 August 2005. The result of the discussion was keep.

• Previous deletion debate

Contents 1 POV 2 Article Issues 3 fix the link 4 Film

[edit] POV

I'm not familiar with the subject, but this article is pretty blatantly non-neutral. It has three paragraphs, two of which are 'Controversies' and 'Legal troubles'; whereas it says virtually nothing about the man's actual work, or why he is famous. At the moment, it looks a lot like a Wikipedia:Attack page; I'm going to assume good faith and assume it wasn't created as such, but it needs serious improvement to reach the minimum standard for biographies of living people. If no such improvement is made to the article in the next week or two, I'll probably just reduce it to a stub, and possibly nominate it for deletion. As it is now, this article is simply not acceptable under Wikipedia's policies. Terraxos (talk) 23:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I am the one who keeps posting the Controversies section. I am not posting it as a form of attack, but rather information. The article lists his work as nonfiction. Given the James Frey situation, I believe that a "nonfiction writer" who passes off fiction as fact is notable. I am not posting it as an attack, I am posting it as true information. A lot of the complaints (which have only recently been explained to me) about it not being extensively sourced. There are several cases where his truthfulness is argued, and even proven at times with information about places that are not relevant or insightful criticisms of the veracity of the stories. Many of these sources seem very well researched pools of information, but they are oftentimes put in blog format, etc. As such none of the information from those articles is included in what I add. The one source that is a print publication that pokes several holes in one of his stories. I'm told that this information needs to be "extensively sourced", but all the information is from the one article stating those facts about locations and information about the different bars. Do I need to add a REF tag after each piece of information even if it's to the same page? I have, until this point, assumed the removing of my Controversies section has been by pro-Tucker vandals (or perhaps Tucker himself) but now I'm just not sure what the requirement for this information is. But I must say that I do firmly believe it to be relevant to a complete and comprehensive article about this man. TheArnieC (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The problems are two or threefold.

1) You're quoting the story wrong. The manager of the restaurant manager wasn't even there the night it supposedly happened and the employee that refutes it has only worked there 3 years--after the event is claimed to have taken place. So right there it's a non-starter. Having a source is great, the source just has to make sense.

2) As per the WP: BOLP, we err on the side of caution. Always. That means if we are going to post criticism it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt true, sourced extensively, no original research, no weasel words, etc. For instance, if you wanted to add that he was a drunk driver and you had a news story detailing his arrest for a DUI, that would be fine. But vague things like "his stories might not be true" need to have HARD FACTS behind them or it is not appropriate for Wikipedia. Go ahead and put them on a web forum or whatever--you could be right, who knows?--but they do not fit the set regulations of Wikipedia.

That is why the controversy section counts as vandalism. Posting it over and over again is inappropriate. Not only is it just factually wrong but it violates the standard Wikipedia holds itself to.

TheRegicider (talk) 01:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article Issues

I haven't contributed much to this article, but I've been watching it for over a year.

The problem this article has is that Tucker Max's anti-fans are so loathingly contemptuous of him that they feel that the article being anything other than an attack page would be unencyclopedic. The recently archived talk page has several examples of editors determined to keep the article as short as possible as an insult to Tucker.

True, the article was at one point overrun with Tucker's fans who wanted to document message board minutae, but that problem went away a long time ago. Now it's just a few people trying to hold the wolves away from the door.

I haven't messed with this article because trying to do anything with it is like stepping into a hornet's nest.

Without an admin to state, and enforce, the unencyclopedic-ness of certain things that the vandals and, for lack of a better term, "haters", insist on contributing, will never be respected. Case in point - a back and forth war over the controversies section caused the article to be protected. And two weeks later, the two sides have't even attempted to initiate a discussion. What little of a discussion there was, was there before the article was protected.

Get an admin in here to sort some things out.

Then compile what needs to be mentioned about Tucker, good and bad. And since things are so argued over that a single change causes 20 edits in the article, hammer out what's going to be included on the talk page before adding it.

As a final comment, I'd like to suggest permanent semi-protection for the article so that randoms can't anonymously vandalize. McJeff (talk) 04:11, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] fix the link

in the bibliography there is a dead link to 'i hope they serve beer in hell', however, the book does have its own page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.198.91 (talk) 01:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Film

It should be announced that Max has a film in pre-production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.197.70.15 (talk) 20:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)