Talk:Tsez language

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Contents

[edit] Tables

I could need a little help with the tables, here. I don't know much enough to know how to make them look as neat as on other language pages. Especially the phoneme table could need some clean-up. Any help? — N-true 17:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgian name

Why is this georgian name here? Tsez is not spoken in Georgia.

I know, I know, it's just because the language is also called "Dido", which is derived from its Georgian name. — N-true 11:01, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split

This is an excellent article, and the coverage of morphology and syntax is amazing. The article is also 59 kilobytes long. Would anyone have a problem if the morphology and syntax sections were split out into a Tsez grammar article? Obviously a summary of the grammar would remain in this article. –jonsafari 06:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

In fact I was happy to have everything on one single page instead of on many pages in a folder. I *personally* would prefer to let it intact... but I guess I'm not the one to decide. :/ — N-true 14:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photos of a Tsez village

I got these pictures of the town Sagada, maybe I can later try to get the authorization to upload them on Wikipedia and to use them in this article... Sagada (Russian: Сагада, Tsez: Сокьо) is a small village where the Tsez language is spoken. See the photos here and there. — N-true 21:32, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Fail

Was anyone aware this was up for GA? Anyway

  • Short one sentence paragraphs, even one sentence sections
  • Four inline references throughout, needs more
  • it's written more like a guide than encyclopedic material, full of lists and tables
  • Theres no article on the 'Tsez' people which proves they are not notable.
  • Choppy sentences with no flow

M3tal H3ad 05:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The fricative row of the phonology table (/s/ and /s/ for both лъ and с?)

Regarding this edit: I agree that most of the changes Strabismus [the reverted editor] made were indeed unnecessary, but I don't really understand why you've also reverted the "/s/ → /ɬ/" substitution in the lateral column.

While I've never heard about this language before and I'm also not an expert o phonetics, it seems a bit odd to me that

  1. now the table uses the same symbol for two separate phonemes, the (voiceless) "dental" and the lateral fricative without any modifying diactrics (whatsoever); in spite of the fact that
  2. the voiceless alveolar lateral fricative has a "dedicated" symbol in IPA, namely /ɬ/ and even if the lateral fricative in Tsez is not alveolar or not voiceless it would be more appropriate to use /ɬ/ or /ɮ/ [or another "lateral" symbol" eg. like l or ɭ] to represent it, with modifying diacritics if they are needed.
--Adolar von Csobánka (Talk) 18:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
You're right, I must've missed that, changed the phoneme back to /ɬ/ now. Thanks! — N-true 18:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] about Souther Daghestanian Tsezes

In southern Daghestan- Lesgis, non Tsez people. Und dabei, die Tsezen sind unteilbare Teil der Awaren. warum hier steht nicht dass die Tsesen Awaren sind? Die Tsezen leben nicht in Sueddagestan. Es ist Nonsens. Die Awaren und Tsesen wohnen in West-Dagestan

Im Text steht, dass die Tsesen in der Tsunt'a-Region im südlichen und westlichen Dagestan leben, diese Information ist Korrekt, es ist südliches Dagestan. Die Tsesen werden oft mit zu den Awaren gezählt. Das ist nicht falsch, aber sie können (und sollten) als eigenes Volk betrachtet werden. Ihre Sprache ist ja auch eine andere. — N-true 13:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Antiavarian separatist propaganda

user N-True wrote: Fluency of Avar is usually higher among men than women, and the younger people tend to be more fluent in Russian than in Tsez, which is probably due to the lack of education in and about the language. Tsez is not taught in school and instead Avar is taught for the first five years, and Russian afterwards. The vocabulary shows many traces of influences of Avar, Georgian, Arabic and Russian, mainly through loanwords and, in the case of Russian, even in grammar and style. These factors will eventually lead to the decline of use of the Tsez language, as it is more and more replaced by Avar and Russian, partly due to loss of traditional culture among the people and the adoption of a Western clothing, technology and architecture This is antiavarian separatist propaganda. Territory of Tsezes is AVARIAN territory and Tsezian Folk is the Part of Caucasian Avars -- User:87.117.157.57

No, it's scientific facts. Sources are given. The Tsez people have no intention of seperation from the Avars – in census, they sometimes even count themselves as Avars. The Tsez are of course closely related to the Avars. — N-true 13:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ergative and absolutive

The second paragraph of Tsez language#Case is wrong: the subject of an intransitive verb and the object of a transitive one are in the absolutive case, and the subject of a transitive verb is in the ergative case. (Sorry for not just fixing this myself, but I'm not sure exactly which part is wrong; I just know that, taken together, the parts cannot all be true.) —RuakhTALK 06:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tsez from Turkey

salamalaykum tsez dido bi mejur baku salam istanbultay yedu teterno si dar habar begir meja dey E mail gamalav@hotmail.com di istanbulto eynaygho dagistantosi alt dey asoku elus haku 150 teb ader turkiyator bayno tokat to 5 alt yols sivasto 3 alt yols elus milletyos alttoza hoboci homi jeku biçiğhanu beynadaniğh beceni şehiryağor bikiğh 2500 jeku yols turkiyat elus millet meç şutiğh biyghosi habaryadğhosin yols ençegon bejeni jekuzak biygho elus meç şutiçus gurciyatno yolstin teksi dar çikyur baku salam big biçi barkala . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.245.19.122 (talk) 07:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC) turkiyatay çikyu çezizar baku salam