Talk:TRS-80

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[edit] Bogus Clone Claims-?

I removed this line:

"Tandy sold the LNW-80 computers with a Tandy Brand in Thailand"

The line was apparently defaced since it had said for months, if not a year+ that

"Tandy sold the LNW-80 computers with a Tandy Brand in Mexico."

If someone has first-hand knowledge or a reference that this is true--that it was a normal occurance for R.S. to sell LNW-80 in Mexico, then please go ahead and revert it back to MX.

Personally, I have a childhood memory of a Radio Shack store in the late 70's/1980's (in Big Bear, Calif. I believe) that also sold non-R.S. electronics. I don't know what the agreement was in place or possibly unenforced, so I suppose it is possible if this were true then Mexico store(s) could have sold LNW-80 gear. It really doesn't make sense from a supply-chain though.

The claim always has seemed dubious to me. What we need is some citations--a scan from a Mexico R.S. catalog would be incredible, if such a things exists. Perhaps a post to on comp.sys.tandy and a response from Frank Durda IV would clear this question up. Dcsutherland 09:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Radio Shack Stores had to sell only stuff from the catalog, at list price. Radio Shack Dealers existed in small towns and could sell any Radio Shack products that they choose to, along with third party products, at whatever price that they choose to. Thus a $1000 TRS-80 Model I could be purchased in a small town (or by mail-order) for around $700. Likewise, it is possible that some Radio Shack Dealers may have sold both TRS-80's and LNW-80's, but in those cases the non-RS prouducts would not have appeared in any RS catalog. StevenAlls 21:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MC10 description

User:Helixblue changed the description of the MC10 from "Smallish,in a white flat,rectangular case with "chicklet" keys that made typing difficult(unless you had smallish hands)" to "similar in appearance to the Sinclair ZX-81", with the log message "rv rubbish added by 24.69.255.205". But actually the original text seemed like a better and more accurate description.

--Brouhaha 21:59, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Picture suggestion

I'm not happy with the picture. The entry for TRS-80 should show *The* TRS-80 Microcomputer, later called Model I, the one the article starts by describing. I find it slightly awesome to make such a big change but I can provide a picture and do the change if nobody objects. The present picture can be moved to the coco description if it is ok that there can be more than one picture.

  • Yep, a proper picture would be great. And don't forget wikipedia's Be Bold policy. Bushytails 01:44, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • I went ahead and got permission to use a proper picture. Not ideal, but better in my opinion. Gbeeker 02:19, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the best picture would be one of a Model I. The one at fieggen.com, however, doesn't seem very good to me, since it has fake lettering on the screen in yellow, which would give people the impression that the Model I had color graphics. I've asked my father if he has any old pics of his Model I.--Bcrowell 20:48, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I totally agree with the fake lettering. I could try to paint-shop it out, since I do have permission now. Rather than the hard way, how about this one instead? http://www.koehntopp.com/museum/bilder/trs80.jpg It's a Model I, and shows a clear screen shot. The blurryness is real, I used to have that same system :-)
MEM SIZE
R/S L2 BASIC.
READY
>_
One problem is the owner appears to speak french, and I only speak english. Gbeeker 02:02, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Looks much better, IMO. Regardless of which one you use, please put some info in the photo's description page explaining its legal status. Are you sure the owner only speaks French? The web site looks like a mixture of German and English. My wife speaks French, if that's really the language we need to use. My father says he doesn't have any pics, BTW.--Bcrowell 18:43, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mapper boards

Anyone have more info on the mapper boards, that let you run CP/M on the Model III (and possibly the older ones; I don't know though)? I can't even remember if they were by Omikron or Omicron... it seems they're worthy of a section here, as they were rather useful. Bushytails 01:51, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My father had one, I'll ask him.--Bcrowell 20:44, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Level I ROM

The Level I ROM is a combination of Tiny Basic and graphic extensions. While the Tiny Basic is public domain, the graphic extensions may be owned by Tandy. There's probably also a BIOS-like thing that interacts between the interpreter and hardware, and that thing may also be owned by Tandy. Is it possible to create a free Level I ROM image by leaving the Tiny Basic part unchanged while rewriting the graphic extensions and BIOS-like thing from scratch using clean-room method? Has anyone already done this? There is a Level I Basic simulator, which is not an emulator and contains no ROM code, but this solution would be even better.

A combination of which Tiny BASIC and extensions? There were many Tiny BASICs, and it is not obvious that Level I is based on any specific one known to be in the public domain. --Brouhaha 01:37, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
It is possible to compare the interpreter contained in the Level I Basic ROM with known public domain versions of Tiny Basic designed for Z80. If it turns out that it is not based on any of them, it is (maybe) possible to replace it with a public domain Tiny Basic version (while still rewriting the graphic extensions and other things from scratch), and again get an emulator-safe Level I ROM image. The TRS-80 ROM also contains font. Fonts cannot be copyrighted, while programs that implement fonts (like TrueType font files) can. The screen font in the TRS-80 ROM is not a program, it is a binary file that represents the font. This file is not executed as a program. Anyway it is possible to replace it with any other font or emulate TRS-80 in video card's text mode.
If it has to be rewritten based on some other Tiny BASIC, it's not really Level I any more; it's something new and different. Anyhow, the Level I ROM does NOT contain any fonts. Nor does the Level II ROM, for that matter. The font is produced by a Motorola MC6670 character generator chip, which is a ROM, but is not part of BASIC. -Brouhaha 16:59, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Of course, th thing should be made compatible with the original Level I ROM, like FreeDOS is compatible with MS-DOS. And what is Motorola's copyright policy on the font contained in MC6670?
The Tiny Basic that Tandy's Level I Basic was based on was written by Dr. Li-Chen Wang and first appeared in Dr. Dobb's Journal of Computer Calisthenics & Orthodontia as Palo Alto Tiny Basic. There were many differences between Dr. Wang's Basic and Tandy's, most notably the graphics routines mentioned previously and the fact that Tiny Basic was integer-only whereas Level I Basic used floating point and in fact did not have an integer data type at all. Since Tiny Basic was intended to drive a TTY, the Level I ROM also included routines to emulate a TTY, more or less, with the TRS-80 hardware. As for the character generator, that was completely separate from the Basic ROM and would not be an issue for a FOSS implementation of Level I Basic. Nibios 21:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trash 80 (was Search fixes)

Since I don't know what the tags are in this case, can we fix it up so someone searching for "Trash 80" and "Trash-80" will redirect here? As is, there's no results for them.--24.9.8.61 09:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Surely people would be smart enough to search on the proper name rather than a nickname?
BTW, I moved this from the top of the page—talk articles are normally chronological from top to bottom. Barefootguru 17:51, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
Didn't everyone know this machine as a Trash 80? Nickname or not, I don't see why it isn't referenced on the main page. Its part of its history! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.253.125.2 (talk) 12:05, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
Even though many people referred to it as "Trash 80", it is a pejorative nickname. User:LiarsofPalestine just added it to the article, and it is already a redirect page, so I am removing the reference from the main article. --Unixguy 18:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
We had a fan club of 65 regulars at it's peak and we called it Trash-80 lovingly. I would seriously disagree that's a pejorative. If it was initially it became adopted by the users. Alatari 21:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
It was perjoritive at first, says an ex-Commodore kid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 16:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Having had one of the Z80 units (Model I Level II), it was a perjoritive, and to some, still is. However it IS a part of the history of those units, and like it or not, needs to be referenced-probably as Trash-80. Matthewcrandall9 (talk) 02:22, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Model 100

Looks like a large part of the description of the Model 100 series was lost. Anyone have a previous version that included this? --Co149 07:02, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks fixed, thanks! --Co149 07:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Model 4 and other vague memories

I'm a bit new here so I hope I'm doing this right. In the discussion of the Model 4, am I right in remembering a 4D which had higher density disk drives?

The Model 4D had a green monochrome screen (instead of white that the early Model 4s came with). The keyboard was rearranged (arrow keys were moved), and it came with DS DD (368KB) 5.25" floppy instead of the SS DD (184KB) drive that the original Model 4 came with. 08:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, is there any value in mentioning early 110, 300 and 1200 baud modems (which I used with the 3 and 4 and 4p) or putting up pictures of them?

Should there be any mention of baseline memory sizes (48k for the 3 i think and 64 or 128 for the 4)? Just wondering...thanks

[edit] Not sure if this true

A display unit that was green by default also existed, made from another modified television chassis, but its casing was entirely incompatible with the Model I expansion unit (The expansion unit was designed specifically for the XL-100 screen, with recesses in its casing to hold the feet of the display).

Yes there was. I don't like "entirely incompatible". It can still sit on the EI, it just doesn't fit like the older monitor. The one I have here is 26-9202 UK 240V version a much better monitor than the older one. Knutrl 21:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TRS-80 Dominance

Need some help with this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_hardware_%281960s-present%29. I sold software for 2 years in 1979-1981 for the TRS-80 and it outpaced Apple by far. If anyone can find sales figures on total numbers of TRS-80 sold and numbers of softwares titles sold (i.e. Instant Software, Scott Adams, etc.) it would be helpful. Alatari 14:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC) Found an indirect article on sales figures from the period: http://www.pegasus3d.com/total_share.html http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/total-share.ars/10, still working on tracking down the original sources.

Checking references and verifying statements seems to take up 9/10's the articles workload Alatari 13:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV?

This article seems written with a bias - it seems to focus almost exclusively on the drawbacks and flaws in the system without covering the strengths of the system.

Yes, and some of the wording (TRS-DOS [...] was so crummy) is clearly unencyclopedic.  ::Travis Evans 21:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah what the hell? I have nothing but happy memories of my Model III. Haber 22:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I think when talking about this era of computers (1977-83), the 'strengths' are that it worked and turned on. None of them really stood out for anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 16:04, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided

Bringing this article in line with the above guidelines. I listed the old EL list here so we can discuss whether it's notable. IF it's a link to a fansite or software download that's considered to-be-avoided but can be submitted to the Open Directory Project. TRS-80 at the Open Directory Project

[edit] Kept

[edit] Fan Sites - the absolute largest fan site by Alexa Internet volume might be listed

[edit] Commercial interests

[edit] Self-Published and others

[edit] Bill Gates and TRS-80 BASIC "last project"

I removed the following:

In a November, 1991 discussion with Peter Coffee and Steven Kovitz, Bill Gates stated that the TRS-80's Level II BASIC was his last actual hands-on programming project and went on compare notes about some of the more innovative programming techniques that he used in order to get as much functionality as possible in 12 KB of ROM.

There was no citation, and it contradicts a quote from him (with citation) in the TRS-80 Model 100 article that the Model 100 was the "the last machine where [he] wrote a very high percentage of the code in the product."

It's certainly possible that he said both of these things, but without a cite for the former, we have to assume that only the latter is true.--NapoliRoma (talk) 17:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)