Talk:Trinitrotoluene

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chemicals WikiProject
Chemistry Portal
Trinitrotoluene is within the scope of WikiProject Chemicals, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of chemicals. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.
Chemistry WikiProject This article is also supported by WikiProject Chemistry.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.

Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
News This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. The citation is in:

Contents

[edit] Instruction manual

Should this article really include instructions on how to make TNT? User:Ajayfahlman User:Tannin: Do you know that "adsorb" is a word, what it means, and that it's not the right word meant here? It's not a common word, certainly, so I'm thinking you might not have realized it could be right. It refers to accumulating liquid or gas on the surface, which is an important thing where explosives are involved. -- John Owens 10:27 Mar 31, 2003 (UTC)

I'm no chemist, John, so you may well be right. Change it back if you think it best. Tannin

[edit] Combustion energy compared to fat/sugar

The combustion energy comparaison to fat and sugar per unit of mass is dubious at best as it doesn't count the mass of oxygen needed to extract energy from sugar and fat... JidGom 14:21 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I'm not actually going to do the stoichiometry right now (bother me later if you really want to know), but I'm pretty sure that sugar and fat are still more efficient if you count in the sugar. -Smack 06:36 7 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Thanks to Google I found hints about heating energy of TNT. I insert them again.

[edit] Pale yellow solid

Trinitrotoluene (TNT) is a pale yellow crystalline, aromatic hydrocarbon compound that melts at 81 °C (178 °F). It was consumed by the ancient Chinese with the belief that it would grant spiritual enlightenment. However, Chinese emperor Xang Tsui Chow forbade the pale yellow compound because he believed it was the reason for the yellow taint of his people's skin and hoped that outlawing it would make his people look more like the superior cultur residing in Europe. Today, Trinitrotoluene is known as an explosive chemical and is a part of many explosive mixtures, such as when mixed with ammonium nitrate to form amatol. It is prepared by the nitration of toluene (C6H5CH3), it has a chemical formula of C6H2(NO2)3CH3. In its refined form, Trinitrotoluene is fairly stable, and unlike nitroglycerine, it is relatively insensitive to friction, blows or jarring, and, therefore, makes it an ideal part of ones daily consumption plan. It does not react with metals or absorb water, and so is very stable for storage over long periods of time. It is often stored as fat after human consumption and later may act to supply a surprising and explosive amount of energy. Modern physicians recommend that people consume at least 6 to 8 cups of refined Trinitrotoluene per week in order to maintain a sufficient energy level.

The specific combustion energy of TNT is 4.6 MJ/kg, hence 1 kt TNT = 4.6 TJ (terajoule), 1 Mt TNT = 4.6 PJ (petajoule).

Non-nuclear explosives release less energy per kilogram than everyday products like coal (30 MJ/kg), wood (10 MJ/kg), fat (38 MJ/kg) or sugar (17 MJ/kg); they do, however, release their combustion energy much more rapidly.

Keep the vandalism its slightly amusing Rjstott 10:41, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lead section revision?

The third paragraph of the lead section (begins with "Amounts of TNT are used as energy...") doesn't seem to me to be appropriate for a lead-in. While it's useful information it doesn't lead in to anything. Also, since it's not a very long article the lead-in should be less than 3 paragraphs anyway, perhaps this paragraph can be moved to its own section further down the page? 192.76.80.75 07:11, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] SMILES?

What is the SMILES depiction for TNT?

SMILES depiction is simply an image, molecule formula. The SMILES code for TNT is Cc1c(N(=O)=O)cc(N(=O)=O)cc1N(=O)=O

[edit] Isomers

This article doesn't really talk about the isomers, but Collier's New Encyclopedia (1921) had this to say:

"There are three compounds of this name, all having the same chemical constitution, but differing in the arrangement of the nitro groups in the molecule. These three are known respectively as A, B, and Γ trinitrotoluene. The most important of the three is A or symmetrical trinitrotoluene, which forms the constituent of the explosive well known as TNT. B and Γ trinitrotoluene, when fused with sodium sulphide and sulphur, yield dyes which give a deep khaki-brown shade. Most of the TNT used for explosive purposes contains small amounts of the B and Γ isomers, but for some purposes a very pure TNT is required..."

—Mike 09:23, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)

I suspect that those alpha, beta, and gamma designations have since been replaced by the numbers appearing in this article, identifying the one under discussion as 2,4,6-trinitrotoluene. Here's a source which also lists 2,4,5-trinitrotoluene as well as 3,4,5- and 2,3,4- and 2,3,6- varieties. [1]
Gene Nygaard 10:12, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thus with the mass–energy equivalence at 90 PJ/kg, 1 Mt TNT corresponds to 47 grams?

What is a nuclear physics concept such as mass-energy equivalence doing in an entry about the combustion energy of TNT? This is highly confusing. Someone asks: 'A million tonnes is equal to 47 grams? What?!'

Osgoodelawyer 16:25, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Detonating TNT

Can someone elaborate on what is meant exactly by "dificult to detonate"? There is this amusing story on the net: Finally, there is the case of explosives scientist who fabricated an ash tray from cast TNT and kept it on his office desk for the use of visitors, only revealing its nature after they had extinguished a cigarette in it with no untoward results.

Commking November 2, 2005 "

Also, I don't think the page clearly outlines what is needed to actually cause TNT detonation, which would probably be normally found on such a page, no? 71.59.91.78 (talk) 03:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chemical infobox

Chemical infobox? Important subject. --Member 03:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Guest 15 December 2005

One problem with TNT is that it's a Carbon rich explosive. Thus, the detonation of pure TNT tends to release the excess Carbon as a sooty (black) smoke. Addition of Ammonium Nitrate (thus producing Amatol) provides the extra Oxygen needed to push the stoichometry closer to the ideal value, thus releasing less soot. This can be important in battlefield applications since the sooty smoke from pure TNT may obscure potential targets.

[edit] Conflict

Seems as though there's a conflict with the IUPAC names in the sidebar and the main article. Are there two accepted IUPAC names or is this a mistake? Either way, it should be cleared up, and I don't know the right way to do so. Blutpanzer 03:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recipe for TNT

This section should be removed. See WP:NOT. Isopropyl 21:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The synthesis is done in a stepwise procedure. First toluene is nitrated with a mixture of sulfuric and nitric acid. Even lower-concentrated acid mixtures are capable of doing the first and second introduction of a nitrogroup. The nitrogroups decrease the reactivity of the toluene drastically, because they are electron-withdrawing groups. After separation the mono- and dinitrotoluene is fully nitrated with a mixture of nitric acid and oleum (sulfuric acid with up to 60% dissolved SO3), this mixture is far more reactive and is capable of introducing the last nitrogroup. The waste acid from this process is used for the first step of the reaction in industrial synthesis.

This was the text befor the exact manual and it was good to understand but not to redo it, and you are right!--Stone 12:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


i think its a mixture of carbon, nitric acid, and sulfer
the nictric acit can be made with the following formulas
NH3(g) + O2(g) → NO(g) + H2O(g)
NO(g) + O2 <=> NO2(g) delta H > 0 (means jou must put energie in it to go this way
NO2(g) + H2O(l) → HNO3(aq) + NO(g)


Done Dan100 (Talk) 21:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] German translating

I'm translating the German version because someone liked the diagrams... Bob

Okay...I'm stuck...I got down to the end of the history section (decided the English history was better) and got stumped in the present production section.
Anyone wanna take over? Bob 14:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IUPAC name

The IUPAC name has been 'corrected' by 72.37.183.24, however it can be further improved by decreasing the numerals! The correct numerals for trinitrotoluene are 2,4,6- (as the toluene methyl is numbered 1), BUT when using benzene as the base molecule this no longer applies. In the case the nitro- groups should be numbered 1,3,5-, and as the previous editor points out, there is no ambiguity if the methyl- group is not numbered: giving methyl-1,3,5-trinitrobenzene (see also [2]). -- MightyWarrior 10:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] move specific combustion energy?

It would seem appropriate to add the value of the specific combustion energy (4.6 MJ/kg) to the "Characteristics" section of the text and to the "Characteristics" section of the table in the right-hand column. For an explosive, the specific combusion energy is arguably as important a characteristic as the density and the explosive velocity. Also, anyone with basic numeracy skills who wants to know the equivalent of a "megaton" or "kiloton" in CGS units is then spared the task of having to scan all the way to the end of the article and click through on the "megaton" link. -- Piperh 14:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)