Talk:Trickster

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Contents

[edit] Examples

I would hardly call the Christian devil a 'trickster.' Scoutersig 16:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The devil is what happens when you take the Trickster and the Horned God, mush them together then filter the result through a sexually repressed, humorless religion--Tricksterson 17:41, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Satan is most definitely a trickster. He qualifies, not being particularly strong against his enemies (in Christian thought the name of Jesus alone is thought to vanish him), yet he is said to tempt everybody, weasling around people's spiritual defenses. Definitely a trickster.

Many, such as Lewis Hyde, would say a trickster is necessarily amoral, and Satan would be disqualified in that regard. Codificate (talk) 04:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picaresque novel

In what way are the picaro from the picaresque novel and the trickster related. Is it o.k. to state that a picaro is a trickster? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReadingGoal (talk • contribs) 23:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose

I really don't think that lists should be converted into paragraphs unless there is good reason for it. Lists are better than man commas. Or a seperate list/table of tricksters should be created. This useful highly legible format should not be obliterated in favour of more academic standardisation.

Secondly, This is a very Eurocentric article not conveying the deeper cultural signifigances to the cultures relevant adequately. Is the jesus article reducing his import for the sake of lazy native commentators. Tricksters may only be bit players in a Eurocentric Ontology but that is not the same elsewhere. Rusl 00:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)foo

Lists are usually seen as a bane to Wikipedia and subject to an Wikipedia:Articles for deletion debate. Until a listed subject/name can achieve enough notability to have its own article, editors will add on here. See also's can be used but lots of editors will re-edit to get their favorite Trickster back on this article - making them a Trickster. Ronbo76 19:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of us think lists can be a very useful part of reference works. They may not be "encyclopedic" in a traditional sense ... so what? why does WP need to be "traditional"? ... this new medium confers new capabilities.
For example, if I were new to the idea of "Trickster", or were going to write a piece about the idea, a list of many examples would be a wonderful resource. The list may be useful to students of multiculturalism, directing us to the appropriate literature and helping us all to understand the cross-cultural character of archetype.
The reference and educational value of lists in some circumstances is undeniable; IMO rather than be subject to a blanket banishing rule, they should be included on separate pages, with special links in the main article. Twang 04:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Lists are permitted on Wikipedia. Prose is prefered IF there is useful material to put into prose. If not, then a list is fine. That goes for an in-line list embedded in a prose article. Johntex\talk 05:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I've created a new page for List of modern day tricksters; consolidated, renamed and moved the "List of tricksters in various cultures." Will this satisfy the various concerns raised? Sunray 21:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Native American?

The 3rd paragraph seems to imply the article is only about Native American mythology, which it is not. *—The preceding unsigned comment was added on May 23, 2007 by HairyDan.

I've edited the lead to attempt to address this concern. See what you think. Sunray 21:40, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Slightly confused

"Native tricksters should not be confused with the Euro-American fictional picaro." What exactly does the word 'native' mean here? Does it mean 'native to somewhere', or 'native American', or something else? Skittle 22:36, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Loki malicious

From the intro paragraph "The trickster deity breaks the rules of the gods or nature, sometimes maliciously (for example, Loki)". This implies that Loki was always malicious, which is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.128.27 (talk) 21:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It says "sometimes maliciously." Sometimes doesn't mean always in my book. Sunray 07:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pan as a trickster

Are we considering Pan, the greek god of nature, a trickster? I'm almost certain he's known as one, but I'd like some reassurance before I add anything on. ---24.192.224.242 14:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)Hermesscholar

Pan is certainly known for playing tricks. However, mythological tricksters usually have other qualities as well. According to Hynes and Doty, in Mythical Trickster Figures (1993), every trickster has several of the following six traits:
  1. fundamentally ambiguous and anomalous
  2. deceiver and trick-player
  3. shape-shifter
  4. situation-inverter
  5. messenger and imitator of the gods
  6. sacred and lewd bricoleur
I did a few searches but couldn't come up with a reliable source that described Pan as a trickster. Sunray 14:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by mehilainen

user:mehilainen added the following text to three different sections. I don't know if the text is relevant, or where it belongs; I've removed all three instances for now.

In modern Texan-Indian-peyote-user's symbology, with no Devil or similar concept of evil, the coyote trickster represents seemingly nonrandom upsetting events that cloud our perception or judgement, often leading to terrible mistakes. Offering cheer over gloom, the coyote invites us to laugh with him at absurdity and move on, while he threatens us with bad decisions caused by our own inability to respond deliberately to the unexpected.

--Niels Ø (noe) (talk) 12:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Postmodern tone

The section "The trickster's literary role in dismantling oppressive systems" has an extremely postmodern tone. Readers of this section will walk away dismayed at the postmodern gobbledygook, instead of realising what the author intended to convey about the use of the trickster myth in literatures of oppressed peoples.

Could someone clean this section up? An article about the trickster myth is not an appropriate vehicle to express postmodern philisophical views.

Thanks, 69.81.156.184 (talk) 00:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)