Talk:Transatlantic telegraph cable

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This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

Don't use words like "Anglophobe" unless you're prepared to prove it. RickK 06:53, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

The burden of proof is on those advocating a change. It doesn't violate neutral point of view if there is no opposing point of view. Gene Nygaard 06:57, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The senators would almost certainly not describe themselves as anglophobes. So yes, they may be lying for the sake of political correctness, but maybe they honestly don't have an irrational fear of the English. Such a word, since it sounds bad, is almost certainly POV. If you have the full, NPOV story behind it ("some senators were in priciple opposed to cooperation with the English because ____"), that would be a useful addition, but a single word will often communicate more than is intended. PaulStansifer 00:37, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Anglophobia among Americans of the period was quite understandable, given British opposition to "Manifest Destiny" and the Mexican war, and the fact that the two countries had nearly gone to war over Oregon barely a decade earlier. Bastie 21:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] for possible inclusion

66.167.138.38 00:29, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC): The following is from William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin but belongs elsewhere, perhaps merged with the text here:

After William Cooke and Charles Wheatstone had introduced their working telegraph in 1839, the idea of a submarine line across the Atlantic Ocean began --Stangbat 20:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)to be thought of as a possible triumph of the future. Samuel Morse proclaimed his faith in it as early as the year 1840, and in 1842 he submerged a wire, insulated with tarred hemp and india rubber, in the water of New York harbour, and telegraphed through it. The following autumn Wheatstone performed a similar experiment in Swansea Bay. A good insulator to cover the wire and prevent the electricity from leaking into the water was requisite for the success of a long submarine line. India rubber had been tried by Jacobi, the Russian electrician, as far back as 1811.
Luckily another gum which could be melted by heat, and readily applied to the wire, made its appearance. Gutta-percha, the adhesive juice of the Isonandra Gutta tree, was introduced to Europe in 1842 by Dr. Montgomerie, a Scotch surveyor in the service of the British East India Company. Twenty years before he had seen whips made of it in Singapore, and believed that it would be useful in the fabrication of surgical apparatus. Faraday and Wheatstone soon discovered its merits as an insulator, and in 1845 the latter suggested that it should be employed to cover the wire which it was proposed to lay from Dover to Calais. It was tried on a wire laid across the Rhine between Deutz and Cologne. In 1849 Mr. C. V. Walker, electrician to the South Eastern Railway Company, submerged a wire coated with it, or, as it is technically called, a gutta-percha core, along the coast off Dover.
The following year, John Watkins Brett laid the first line across the English Channel. It was simply a copper wire coated with gutta-percha, without any other protection. The experiment served to keep alive the concession, and the next year, on November 13, 1851, a protected core or true cable was laid from a Government hulk, the Blazer, which was towed across the Channel. Next year Great Britain and Ireland were linked together. In May, 1853, England was joined to Holland by a cable across the North Sea, from Orfordness to the Hague. It was laid by the Monarch, a paddle steamer which had been fitted for the work.
I have moved all this to underwater telegraph cable. Cutler 16:41, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Something missing

In the opening Introduction there is a sentence that needs fixing as it has no point to make, reference The Queen of England spoke to the President James Buchanan of the United States.

[edit] Needle in the haystack or cable lost in the ocean, which is easier?

On August 9 the Great Eastern put to sea again in order to grapple the lost cable of 1865, and complete it to Newfoundland. [3] Arriving in mid-ocean after thirty casts of the grapnel, she hooked and raised it to surface, then spliced it to a fresh cable in her hold, and paid out to Heart's Content, Newfoundland, where she arrived on Saturday, September 7. There were now two working telegraph lines.'

Could someone please care to explain how did they found the lost cable in the middle of open ocean [[without help of GPS or radio beacons? Sextant navigation deviates many miles from actual position.

Away from the mid-Atlantic ridge the seafloor is very smooth, so dragging a hook through the mud in a north-south direction will eventually allow you to snag the cable. No precision navigation required. Bastie 02:29, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Section cleanup tag added

In reading through the first section of this article, I feel like I'm getting a collection of factoids that serve no purpose in the introduction. In addition, the sentences don't read very well, and the section overall doesn't do a very good job of introducing the topic. Stack 17:03, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


[edit] This project was done in reality, yes?

"The Transatlantic cable would bridge the North American continent with that of Europe, and speed up communication between the two from a matter of days by ship, to a matter of minutes by telegraph. "

This sentence makes it sound like a theoretical concept never implemented. What about:

"The Transatlantic cable bridged the North American continent with that of Europe, and speed up communication between the two from a matter of days by ship, to a matter of minutes by telegraph. "

Just did it - Jedi of redwall

66.240.10.170 00:10, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Communication speeds - date question

This section currently reads, Initially...[t]he reception was very bad and only a few words per minute could be sent. By 1858 there were hundreds of under-sea cables linking every part of the civilised globe. The methods of sending messages had been vastly improved, and message sending could be automated so that up to 120 words a minute could be transmitted. London had become the world centre in telecommunications. etc.

According to the rest of the article, 1858 was the date of the first, rudimentary cable. Did all these improvements really happen in the same year or has someone made a typo in the year here? DopefishJustin 20:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failure of first cable

Didn't the first cable fail because Whitehouse put 2000 volts through it? If this is the case, the article makes it sound like it was from natural causes. Doormatty 01:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relays

The factoid about relays is interesting, but seems akwardly placed at the end of the Communication Speeds section. Perhaps a new section discussing the cable's technology would be a better place for information such as this. However, until such information is written, what is the best option? Leave it alone? --Stangbat 20:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to know more about the relays. The article simply says that they are possible, but then no further information is given.

[edit] The cable today

Wouldn't be a bad idea to add a small section about what happened to the cables in the 20th century. Are they still there in the ocean? Still usable? I couldn't find anything relevant on Google. --V. Szabolcs 22:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to get definite facts but I have seen cables still in place at Waterville (photographs on my site at www.cial.org.uk) and I did see one at Cape Cod (but no evidence !). See also Tom Perera's site - he dives for cables around North America. Ex employees of the Commercial Cable Company I have spoken to all assume they were salvaged. Johnrcrellin 09:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Was the Transatlantic cable suspended in water?

Was the cabel laid across the ocean bed, or were floatation devices used to keep the cabel afloat at a certain depth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.148.36.33 (talk) 18:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Definitely resting on the ocean floor. Johnrcrellin 07:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How was the 1858 cable destroyed?

In the summary, it states that the cable failed when high voltage was applied in the hopes of increasing message speed. However, in the text, it says the insulation failed. Which is right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.37.28 (talk) 22:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The insulation was destroyed by the too high voltage. The way I have read it Whitehouse believed in a brute force approach - keep trying more voltage to get a better signal - against Thompson (later Lord Kelvin) who realised it was better to use sensitive reception equipment and keep the voltage down. The Bern Dibner reference has chapter and verse... Johnrcrellin (talk) 09:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.155.232.24 (talk) 22:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thickness?

Mention how thick the cable was. Jidanni (talk) 02:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC)