Talk:Traditional pop music
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[edit] Choice of label
Hi user:Dickparker1933. For a start, pleae list your objections to the term "traditional pop music"? Then perhaps you could suggest an alternative. Thanks. -- Viajero 11:07, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- In the American context at least, "traditional pop music" should really be stuff by Stephen Foster and Dan Emmett, shouldn't it? — Amcaja 17:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
what are American Standards supposed to be? this is a very myopic view of music, suggest renaming this category
- I agree, this is a bit of a mess. Of course all definitions of this sort are always going to be fuzzy round the edges, but it does seem a little bizarre to find Rod Stewart and Linda Ronstadt mentioned as being of any significance in an article about Gershwin, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Harold Arlen, Warren/Dubin, etc. I would have thought a more significant aspect of this kind of music, not mentioned in the article so far, is its joint roots in (a) East European Jewish music, (b) Viennese operetta, and (c) jazz, with particular reference to the very high proportion of its originators who were either only one generation away from central or eastern Europe, and/or (mostly "and") Jewish. Woblosch 23:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
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- I agree with Woblosch's point on origins if not that on more recent exponents. However, I find the use of the word "traditional" in the context of mass-market music extremely strange! With any tradition, one can always point out a group of people the tradition can be said to "belong to". So, this music is a tradition of whose, exactly?
I suggest that these perennially favourite songs are better known as popular standards, since they are well-known and unexceptionable. They are likely to be performed by any new singer trying to get established; they also represent a safe, middle-of-the-road choice for musicians who are paid primarily to provide entertaining background music in clubs and restaurants. 124.191.50.164 09:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I should add that the label "classic pop" seems to me to better suit the entire genre, than any name including the word "traditional" could possibly do. 124.191.50.164 14:45, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with Woblosch's point on origins if not that on more recent exponents. However, I find the use of the word "traditional" in the context of mass-market music extremely strange! With any tradition, one can always point out a group of people the tradition can be said to "belong to". So, this music is a tradition of whose, exactly?
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- I agree that this article needs a LOT of revision - starting from the version as at 9 April 2007, before a huge amount of extremely POV stuff about Linda Ronstadt et al was put in. I've taken some of that out, but it needs a lot more work - eg to add in the points made by Woblosch. I find the idea that Joni Mitchell, for example, writes "traditional pop" utterly bizarre - she writes high quality classic music which may well be appreciated by some admirers of Sinatra etc, but that is not the same thing. There is a good article to be written here, which looks at the "pre-rock" (and non-jazz/blues/R&B) elements and history of Western (US/UK etc) popular music, its relationship with theatre, movies, etc, and the latterday examples of that approach (inc Ronstadt, Rod Stewart etc), but the current article is not a good starting point.Ghmyrtle 15:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Idiom
Under the heading "The advent of Rock and Roll", the second-last paragraph ends with: "... all made forays into this once shied upon territory." My understanding of the idioms involving the verb "shy" is that people "shy away from {territory, etc}" rather than "shy upon {territory, etc}". What do others think? 124.191.50.164 09:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Last date
A question to ponder: Is there a last date acceptable for a song to classify as belonging to the "classic pop" genre? I'm thinking particularly of songs like The Beatles' "Till There Was You", which strikes me as very much of the same type, even though performed by a band more usually labelled "rock". Your opinions, please? 124.191.50.164 14:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
- I now discover that "Till There Was You" was written by Meredith Willson, composer and lyricist of the famous Broadway musical "The Music Man". Duh! ;-) But the question stands, even if my first example was totally inappropriate. For example, do we include the songs of Antonio Carlos Jobim? or the ballads (clearly not rock) of Elton John & Bernie Taupin, eg "Candle in the Wind"? 124.191.50.164 03:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] External sources
Do we have external sources that use either of the labels "classic pop" or "traditional pop"? If not, doesn't this article violate Wikipedia guidelines? 124.191.50.164 14:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
