Talk:Tong Yabghu
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Tong Yabghu has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment. | |||
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An entry from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on June 4, 2007. | |||
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[edit] Removal
Well, I had checked, and no response for this removal. Eiorgiomugini 18:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Khazars
I removed this text:
The concept of identifying with Khazar khagans was being rejected by a few scholars such as Chavannes, Uchida and Xue Zhongzeng,[1] one of the main reason involved with his date of death, which generally had been disputed from 626 to 630, due to the differs from primary sources.[2][3]
In the context of the paragraph this makes no sense. What is being objected to? What the article says is that Ziebel and Tong Yabghu are identical, and that Theophanes identifies Ziebel as "Khagan of the Khazars". Is Xue (you give no citation for the others) arguing that Ziebel is not Tong Yabghu, or that Theophanes does not actually identify him as khagan of the Khazars? What is the basis for the disagreement I am trying to help make this article good but continually restoring grammatical errors helps no one. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 18:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
In your first removal, you did not said anything about the grammatical errors, but conflicting from your sources. It makes no sense when the fact that his date of death was disputed, there can be no certain for such assert with another source, you should be able to think where the problem lies. Xue actually provided other scholars's quote argument with footnotes, and shown what is being disagreed at. There are several factors, such as the exaggerated stories which written as well as the date. And no, Theophanes did not identified him as Tong Yabghu and vice versa in the Chinese sources. This is clearly another type of WP:NCON as far as I can tell. Eiorgiomugini 18:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is undisputed fact that Theophanes named Ziebel khagan of the Khazars. What I believe you are saying is that Xue and the others he cites claim that Ziebel is not the same as Tong Yabghu, and Tong Yabghu may have died before the Third War. I will add this back in. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 18:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Not exactly, but I don't see the reason that you removed the source, actually is more complicated. Also there are more than one Khazar khans that were being identified with Tong Yabghu according to him. Eiorgiomugini 18:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- I've restored the reference. If it's not exactly what you meant then let's try and work it out here on talk before adding to the article. I am trying to proceed in good faith with you.Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 19:00, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually you did a good job on that on that phrase. Eiorgiomugini 19:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- My intention was never to obscure or remove legitimate information. It was to make sure that the article is readable and understandable. I am happy to work with you (or whoever) to that end.Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 19:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
