Talk:Tomb Raider (series)

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Contents

[edit] Article name

This article should be moved to Tomb Raider (series). - 86.142.147.12 (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Characters

Can someone please help me update the separate character pages so they can be more detailed? We also need some for Takamoto, Tony (TR3) and the Chronicles flashback characters.

Thanks. --The Aussie Freak 15:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

I think we should make an article about Tomb Raider music, whatever should be called. There is a big evolution in Tomb Raider tunes, from classic violin to modern beats. Lot of fans are absolutely loving this kind of music. --Locke 10:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Table for the list of games in the Series

I think the list of games should be put in a table to make it easiet on the eye.

[edit] Lara's evolution picture

I noticed this picture being resized back and forth. Setting it at 200px doesn't really do justice to this image. It looks weird and out of place either way, but by structuring it a little better into the article (and giving it a decent, watchable size) I do think it is a useful contribution to the article. --Steerpike 17:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major changes 02/02/06

As some of you might have noticed, I gave the Tomb Raider page a complete overhaul. Now before you start reverting everything back, let me explain what exactly I have altered and, more importantly why I did so. First of all I thought a split was necessary because each Tomb Raider game by itself contains enough info for an entire page. I like the short synopsis of each game on this page, including the locations Lara visits, but I feel that there is a lot more to tell about each release, and they all deserve their own page. This page is handy to centralize all information on Tomb Raider in a short, to-the-point manner.

Second, the Tomb Raider franchise by now contains enough spin-offs and related media to warrant lengthy inclusions on this page. So a general Tomb Raider page seems ideal.

Here is a list of all changes:

  • Moved “Tomb Raider” to “Tomb Raider series”
  • changed the introduction
  • added the Tomb Raider logo to the top
  • added short info on Lara Croft and her character.
  • Restructured the headings
  • Restructured the pictures
  • Rewrote part of the game info.
  • Removed the long explanation behind “Angel of Darkness” commercial failure. It should be included in that game’s own main article. It’s too long to include on this page.
  • Expanded the movie section with plot synopsis (lifted from their respective pages, admittedly)
  • Changed the page “Tomb Raider” to a full information page on the original game (click and enjoy).

Please leave your comments here. --Steerpike 23:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nude raider paragraph hard to understand

"by a gamer who stated that Eidos sent something to their house and discovered that it was a lawsuit and that in the lawsuit filed against him by Eidos because of the Nude Raider patch, Eidos stated in the lawsuit, that he said in the lawsuit it stated that Eidos sent the lawsuit to both gamers and servers, which some say is up to around 60-80 pages on the electronic mailing list, that the Nude"

Now what the f*** is that supposed to mean? It's a bit hard to follow, I think :>

[edit] Custom Jeep for movie

I found out that Jeep made a custom Wrangler for the Movie "The Cradle of Life", but I'm judging whether or not it's worth adding.

[1]

Here's what I wrote in case any of you decide this is worth adding: "During the production of The Cradle of Life, Jeep was assigned to make a specialized Jeep Wrangler for the movie. It was basically a custom Jeep Wrangler with attachments to improve durability and lighting. It was later marketed as a custom Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Tomb Raider edition, and its sales hinged on the success of the movie. "

[edit] Replaced section - Nude Raider

A rather unsavoury development in Lara Croft's history is the so-called "Nude Raider" patch. It is alleged that someone within Eidos created the patch then released it on the Eidos website back in 1996, where it remained for a few hours until Eidos discovered it and removed the patch. However, many people downloaded the patch and uploaded it to different websites. This program, when added to an existing Tomb Raider game, causes Lara to appear naked, which is unsurprisingly popular among a certain proportion of gamers. In April 2004, an insider from Eidos reported to a Tomb Raider electronic mailing list that Eidos Interactive had begun suing gamers using the "Nude Raider" patches and sent cease and desist letters to servers hosting the "Nude Raider" patch, enforcing their intellectual property of Tomb Raider. It is also reported that Eidos intend to pursue action against unauthorized "home-made" patches for the game, and indeed any other games that the publisher has ownership rights to. However, the complete accuracy of such reports may be called into question, as it is likely that the rumours are exaggerated to an extent.

A quick Google search will find you such a patch, if you so desire.

POV needs to be fixed, but it is intresting information.--Tznkai 03:57, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Material on level editor

I added this material as an anonymous user:

"Included with the PC and Mac release of Tomb Raider: Chronicles was a level editor which allowed players to create their own levels for use with the previous Tomb Raider game engine, Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation. Fan-built levels are distributed via Tomb Raider fan sites and forums."

--Skulking 23:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

folks at larashome.com/forums have added some bits to it as the original was biased and have forgotten a big part of the community which is still very alive, although may not be as active as previous days. but there are many "elite" builders and players are still in the field, including myself.

GeckoKid 05:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to add info about some tools to this part, not all of them, just some of the most well-known. Ggctuk 09:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I've updated some info regarding unofficial LEs and engine patches ;) . I think that this section of article must be separated and placed into Tomb Raider Level Editor article (which is now simply redirects to this article). TR level editing deserves more than this small section. I have worked on TRLE article in russian Wikipedia for a while, i hope that someone will also expand this topic in english Wikipedia. -- Pyuaumch 01:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Seconded. Seeing as this part of the article WAS once in its own article (I started it, but it was moved here due to lack of content). I'm going to start transferring info there. Tomb Raider Level EditorGgctuk 10:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Moved section completely to new article. Find it under Tomb Raider Level Editor. Ggctuk 14:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The stuff under Tomb Raider Level Editor on this article has been completely moved. The link is in the article itself. Ggctuk 15:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

You can't do that. You have to at least write a synopsis under the header in this article. Otherwise it's just a title with a link under it, which is not normally done in Wikipedia articles. --Steerpike 13:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
done that now. Ggctuk 12:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible inclusions

[edit] Pop culture figure and cultural critique

There is room for discussion of Lara Croft as a pop culture figure. Lara's popularity, apparent power and calculated sexual appeal have made her the subject of debate, particularly among female gamers and cultural critics: What message does she send? Does her breast size and exaggerated body lead to unhealthy ideals in female and male players? There is the debate about various types and depictions of violence, too, although that's hardly unique to Tomb Raider games.

There are some interesting details in this area: Video games sometimes reward player excellence with varying amounts "female flesh" the player will see at the end. The end of Tomb Raider II defies this trend: just as it seems Lara is about to undress in front of the camera, Lara says, "Don't you think you've seen enough?" and shoots the camera with her shotgun. The camera spends the last moments of the game viewing the ceiling.

Obviously, this material will have to be presented in an a neutral tone. I think it is possible to persent ,the major points on both sides of the argument in a clear, concise manner.

[edit] The move to "Next Gen" concoles and fallout

Another area that could see some development is the changes to the franchise attempted with the first "next gen" concole game Angel of Darkness, the financial failure of that game, and the loss of the game by Core followed by their replacement by Crystal Dynamics for Legend.


[edit] Third-person shooter and action-adventure game

Finally, the material on the original game's unique technical and gameplay shapes the game as primarily a third-person shooter using a now relatively crude, but once inovative 3D engine. While all this is important and should definately stay in the article, Tomb Raider is also one of the first Action-Adventure games, a trail-blazer in that genre too. Puzzle solving and story-telling elements have only become stronger over the course of the series.

--Skulking 23:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Some fan ideas

I think that Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness is a combination between Batman (The cartoons) and Tomb Raider

Proofs:
  • her new look
  • the soundtrack, the title music is te perfect example, we can hear the classic violin at the same time with classic sound of Batman's soundtracks
  • the atmospere of the game: huge caves, moony roofs, dark places.

Another thing would be: one of the resons for the failure of both Tomb Raider movies. in game Lara is called Miss Croft and in the movies she is called Lady Croft (huge difference) --Locketudor 12:42, 15 August 2005 (UTC) The matter however may have been(intentionally or unintentionally)addressed in the released Tomb Raider Legend wherein Takamoto calls Lara "Miss Croft" while Nishimura's bartender calls her "Lady Croft".

[edit] About TRL info

I have added some info about TR Legend. I've found it on www.tombraiderchronicles.com page (http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tr7/synopsis_02.html). I think this site is reliable but if you have any other info about the new TRL - just edit the TRL part.

--sturm 22:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Split this article?

I think, given the amount of info there is on each game, we should split this article up in several pages, one for each game, and one that gives an overview of the series/franchise. --Steerpike 23:35, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Thats a good idea... i could take care of that but in a couple of weaks since i have a lot of work to do right now plus im working on the Prince of Persia part on wikipedia... something similar to the Prince of Persia series would be fine.--sturm 01:09, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mac versions of Tomb Raider

There is no information regarding Tomb Raider video game releases for Macintosh computers. This link could be used as a reference unless anyone else has better information. It has release dates and publisher information.

http://www.gamedb.com/ssps/0/11/search/?PHPSESSID=109732561a46909e024c2a0e69d7be8a&search_name=1&search_description=1&search_category=1&search_keywords=tomb+raider

[edit] Tomb Raider finally on Nintendo

It was announced that Tomb Raider: Legend will have a gamecube version. http://cube.ign.com/articles/699/699529p1.html

And a GBA version [2]--88.105.239.131 18:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

They'd better announce the anniversary remake for Xbox 360... --Steerpike 22:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Impartiality

There has been several questionable changes to some of the paragraphs within the article. Specifically towards the end of Tomb Raider Legend where author or authors comment on the sexualiztion of the Legend Lara. Whether they have a point or not hardly matters since the whole article is meant to impart impartial information and facts not opinions of the writer. If anyone notices any kind of opinions posted on any subject within Wikipedia feel free to edit or, if need be, delete such posts since this site is considered an encyclopedia not a magazine article.

I recently edited that stuff out. --Steerpike 20:06, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I deleted lots of the external links, there was way too many. Wikipedia is not a link directory. Normally, one link to a fan site is enough. - TexMurphy 13:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, when some links lead to relevant websites, with additional information that's not on WP, I don't see why it should be a problem. And TRC is not that great, anyway. - Klow 16:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Relevant is one thing, but the list contained many links to sites that just repeats the information from other sites. I don't mind if you put some back as long as they're 'unique' (lacking a better word). And a description next to the link so we know what it contains won't hurt :) - TexMurphy 08:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Ok. ;-) Klow 18:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Ok, you think my link is irrelevant. So be it. "Please don't restart old topics", and blah blah blah. Klow 23:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
        • I didn't delete your link. - TexMurphy 06:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
          • I am going to keep deleting all the external links minus the official site if people cannot agree. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SteveAce (talk • contribs) 03:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
  • Just repeats info from other sites?! Every single fan site repeats info from official site. If you we go that way, there must ONLY be official site listed.

Please do not remove TombRaider.Ws link from Wikipedia pages, as we are one of very few Tomb Raider fan portals with rich content and media, and directly supported by Eidos (even credited in recent TR Anniversary game as "Tomb Raider Community"). We have relevant information on original series as well, so I would appreciate if this add/remove un-pleasantries stop happening. Oh and yes, we REPEAT the info from official sources, as everyone else does, since we are officially supported. My regards! Shehriyari 12:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC).

You weren't the only site to appear in the credits. According to Moby Games, many fan sites appeared in the credits. Checking your website, it appears your "relevant information" from the original series is incomplete - you don't have pages for Tomb Raider 2 or Tomb Raider 3. Also, according to WP:FANSITE, sites which require registration are usually to be excluded as links - since your site seems to be based around this system, it will likely continue to be removed. ~~ [Jam][talk] 12:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tomb Raider 8 or 9?

I've changed the article back to saying that the next game in the franchise is going to be the eighth one, as the Anniversary Edition is a remake and not a new installment. Gamespot agrees. Shrensh 22:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

If you do a Google search for "tomb raider 8", you could find many more references, just in case somebody asks. ColdFusion650 23:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, yeah, that as well. I figured that linking to Gamespot was the simplist way to illustrate my point, but if you Google search it you'll find that everywhere considers the game coming after Anniversary to be Tomb Raider 8. Shrensh 09:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One more category can be add to the article

There is nothing said about the history of the triangle/circle (The Scion Logos) logo that appears a lot in the movies and in the next generation games, after the Lara Croft Bio has been reedited. I give a link to some german fan site Link here. Thank you, I hope it will be helpful. --Tudor Tulok 15:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I would say my German's rusty, but that would imply that at some point I actually knew German. ColdFusion650 15:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Evolution of Lara" image

Since TRA is just an enhanced, though not a 1:1, remake of the original TR, and given the fact that Lara of TRA is graphically inferior to Lara of TRL, should TRA really be placed at the end of the evolution chain? rohith 21:53, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

TRL and TRA use the same engine. Based on playing the demos, I would say that they are graphically on par. In the screenshot, the lighting for TRA isn't the best, creating the impression of inferior graphics. I would say that since the images go in chronological order, they should actually be in chronological order. Moving the TRA image would make it... not in chronological order. ColdFusion650 22:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I think it should stay in this (chronological) order. Moving the screenshoot could confuse some people. Another thing is this discussion should be done in the evolution picture page not Tomb Raider series since this image is used in several articles. --sturm 08:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I would also leave them in chronological order. The image shows the changes in the Lara model over the development of the series. On that note I recommend replacing the TR2 image with one of Lara in her signature outfit as it would better show such changes. The TR2 image is also out of sync with the others both in alignment and in backdrop. The AOD image probably should be replaced with an image that is obstruction free. Should we do an image showing the 2D versions of Lara from the various hand held games? Generalleoff 13:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Showing 2D Lara doesn't make sense since 1. its a different kind of a game 2. the resolution wont fit. I do think that TR2 image could be replaced, if anyone has time to do it. I'm not sure why i placed a pic that doesn't exactly fit the others there (maybe i had some problems with getting a good screenshoot? cant remember).--sturm 21:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I meant a separate photo not a combined photo. I made it (see below) but it really is pretty ugly and I agreed it is not worth using in the article. The image is currently marked for deletion. I would do the TR2 image but these shots appear to be from the PC versions and all I have is the PlayStation versions of the games. The shot would be out of place. Generalleoff 18:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and made an image of Lara Croft in Tomb Raider/Tomb Raider: Curse of the Sword (GBC), Tomb Raider: The Prophecy (GBA)and Tomb Raider: Legend (GBA). If anyone feels it is worth adding to the page or wants to add other 2D renditions of Lara or otherwise modify it go for it. Image:Trevohh.png Generalleoff 18:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Those are of such horrible quality, it's a stretch to call them pictures. Their really just a collection of colored squares. I see no point in putting them in the article. And since they won't be used in any article, they should be nominated for deletion. And things would go easier if the author nominated it under the "Orphan" rationale. ColdFusion650 20:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. They are pretty damn ugly. Generalleoff 22:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Tomb raider angel of darkness screen2.jpg

Image:Tomb raider angel of darkness screen2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Tombraider journeys1.jpg

Image:Tombraider journeys1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Why are URLs to some fansites allowed and others not?

tombraiderchronicles.com is a fan site and not an official Eidos site. How come links to all other fansites are deleted from the Tomb Raider Wiki pages, but that to tombraiderchronicles.com is not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.102.212.40 (talk) 13:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think it is up to other editors to comment as I've already spoken to you about this, but I don't believe tombraiderchronicles.com is a fan site. It covers a wide range of material related to Tomb Raider, and has very good sections of information about each of the games. The link you were suggesting (http://www.tombraiders.net/stella/) has very little information (even the site itself admits this - see the link comparison table) compared to tombraiderchronicles.com for example. ~~ [Jam][talk] 13:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Define "fan site" for me then. What is it about Tomb Raider Chronicles that makes you believe that it is not a fan site? If it isn't a fan site what is it? Free advertising for the game company Eidos, supported by Wikipedia? What has the "link comparison" stats have to do with anything? Are you claiming that if a fan site is "big enough" it ceases to be a fan site? By the way - saying "I've already spoken to you about this" as if you've in some way settled the argument is patronising. I'll continue to "speak to you" about this until you make logical sense. Or else what is the point in you being an editor for Wikipedia? And if you ignore me then I'll assume that you've changed your mind and that it is OK to edit the URLs on this page. 77.102.212.40 (talk) 11:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

As I have already said what I think about tombraiderchronicles.com, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to comment further as we have both already said our piece. I think that other editors need to get involved and air their thoughts on this. Please do not assume because I do not continue to reply to this that I have in any way changed my mind - my stance on the issue still stands.
As I said in my previous reply, I do not feel that tombraiderchronicles.com is a fan site because it covers a wide range of material relating to the Tomb Raider games. Whether that makes it applicable for inclusion as an external link, I don't know. Feel free to read the External links guideline and decide for yourself. I've read it and feel that tombraiderchronicles.com could be considered valid. Other editors (perhaps more experienced in this than I am) may decide otherwise, and it is up to them to comment in this discussion and make their views heard.
Eidos gets free advertising wherever Tomb Raider is mentioned, so what that has to do with this discussion, I don't know. Maybe tombraiderchronicles.com generates a little bit of "free advertising" from being included here - put "tomb raider" into Google and see where tombraiderchronicles.com and Stella's Tomb Raider site come respectively. I think someone looking for Tomb Raider information is far more likely to look there than on Wikipedia. ~~ [Jam][talk] 12:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] tomb raider logo

Can anybody tell where the "original Tomb Raider logo" as seen at the main article, comes from? It should be verifiable, and at this point it isn't since the "source" (as seen at the fair use rationale of the image) is only pointing to the article that uses the image. The "source" should point to the place where the image originally came from, and only then can it be verified that this is the real deal, and not something made by a fan or something. twsl ► Talk 21:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

It would appear that the logo has come from here, but with the II removed. I've put in a request for clarification from the original uploader. ~~ [Jam][talk] 21:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)