Talk:Tomahawk (axe)

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I have heard that the native american tomahawk also had some inspiration from the francisca which was used extensively by french colonists. - DoobieEx


"The tomahwk subtracts where is was from where it should be, it now is."

What does this text in the article mean?

Thankfully that bit has been taken out. It's a reference to an audio clip which was floating around some webforums a few years back. It was supposedly about the Tomahawk cruise missile and contained a long-winded non-sensical description of how the Tomahawk's guidance system supposedly operates ("the Tomahawk subtracts where it isn't from where it is to determine where it should be, and subtracts where it should be from where it is to determine..."). 20:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- Kjkolb 08:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Tomahawk (axe) → Tomahawk – WP:NAME. A large number of pages already link to "Tomahawk", almost all of which refer to the axe. This is the only usage that does not require a qualifier, as it is the original usage. Alternate uses are at Tomahawk (disambiguation). Kafziel 14:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Support as nominator. Kafziel 14:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The most common use today is for the missle. Using links to is not a reason to make a change like this. That is a metric that has no meaning. Vegaswikian 22:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
    • You also failed to note that you had just moved Tomahawk (disambiguation) from Tomahawk which was the correct place for the dab article before making this nomination. I moved the dab back to where it was. Vegaswikian 22:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Dude, why are you trying to insinuate that I did something sneaky? I moved the disambiguation to make room for the real article. There's absolutely no rule against doing that. When it occurred to me that I wouldn't be able to move the "tomahawk (axe)" article, I didn't bother moving the dab back because I didn't think anyone was going to have a hissy fit about this.
The missile's page is exactly where it should be. You're not proposing to move that, are you? There's no reason why there can't be a note at the top of the tomahawk page letting people know where to find the missile; it's the same amount of clicks. "What links here" is a good indicator, because it shows what the average [lazy] editor expects when they create an internal link. That's exactly what principle of least astonishment is all about. I doubt anyone would type "tomahawk" and be shocked when the article about tomahawks comes up. If they type "tomahawk missile", they'll get the missile. "What links here" shows us that people who write articles about the missile (and pretty much every other use) don't expect "tomahawk" to link there.
The fact that a term has a lot of uses is no reason to hijack the location of the actual, original, correct term. That's why God made "Topic (disambiguation)" pages. Kafziel 01:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually (disambiguation) in an article name is only needed if one article really belongs at the main name space. Given the number of entries on the dab page that is highly unlikely. If you also look at the links to, a good number are for the basketball dunk shot for which there is no article and the dab page has the only definition. So the question is what was broken with the way it was that needs fixing? Generally in the case of a dab, nothing. The case needs to be made that one use is clearly the dominate one. I don't think that is the case here so the dab should continue to occupy the main name space. Vegaswikian 01:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not really sure what you're looking for. If you want Google results, I can tell you that Tomahawk+Indian brings back more than a million results [1] (with an additional 200,000 hits for "tomahawk+native -Indian", accounting for the pages created by white liberals), twice as many as tomahawk+missile and more than three times as many hits as tomahawk+basketball. No other use for the word is going to come close. So, yes, this is clearly the dominant meaning. Kafziel 01:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Picture...

Isn't there a better picture of a tomahawk? I've now spent a couple of minutes looking at this one, and I think I've figured out which bit is the tomahawk - but wouldn't it be better if there was a picture of *just* the tomahawk? CatBoris 16:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I have replaced the picture with one that I think is a lot easier to see. Jerry 19:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin

A show on the History Channel "Barbarian Battle Tech" said that the tomahawk was inspired by the fransisca brought over with the French. Perhaps they meant the fransisca influenced tomahawk design and not its origin (?). I would be curious to know if there are Native American axes that pre-date the French in North America which would contradict the fransisca inspiring tomahawk origin. Hal(unregistered)75.34.103.92 03:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

At a fair in Pennsylvania in the year 2000, a Lenni-Lenape descendant told me that the weapon was French, and that the deadliest native American weapon was a wooden club. I forget the name of the club, but he had an example at his booth. -CKL

[edit] Hand-to-hand combat?

The cited article doesn't say anything about that. --213.39.133.194 09:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That article cites it's comeback to the military, page 3 of that article mentions it's use as a weapon. --Mike Searson 15:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

One thing the article does not mention: I read (somewhere) that the invention of Bowie knife caused a decline of the tomahawk. Seems more settled places back east didn't need it for a weapon anymore, and frontiersmen found the heavy Bowie more useful... Anybody know if thats true?...Engr105th 19:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I've heard that too at knifeshows from guys who make Bowies, do you recall where you read it? It would be an interesting addition to the article if we could verify it. Mike Searson 20:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I recall reading it sometime back in the 1990s...maybe because the movie "Last of the Mohicans" piqued my interest. I'll see what I can find - but doubt I'll get the exact source again (and that source probably isn't original). But I think its pretty obvious the Tomahawk was "obsolete" well before the Civil War. Kinda overtaken like the flintlock gave way to percussion rifles. Flintlock/Tomahawk belonged to the Colonial era...Engr105th 18:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I'll look as well. It definitely was not obsolete on Naval Vessels, though until the 1940's. On a side note, I'm considering writing a new article on the modern tomahawk...any interest in helping out with that one? Mike Searson 20:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Will do...Been interested in this interesting weapon for some time. Almost bought a handmade one at a show here in NC...by the way, is there a secure email option on this Wiki stuff, just to trade info? I'm rather new to it... Engr105th 21:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
You can go to my User page and down on the left hand side there is a link "Email this user" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Searson

Mike Searson 21:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks like I have to register my email somehow (I guess thats how my signature always shows up red, while other are blue? I'll figure it out. Give me a while)...
You wrote above "It definitely was not obsolete on Naval Vessels, though until the 1940's." I'm not sure about that - maybe it was still present as some kind of boarding party axe or a fire axe, but certainly it was obsolete as a typical weapon by then. Surely they weren't issuing them to modern naval vessel crews?? For example, Officers still have ceremonial swords but nobody uses them:) By the way, my past interest has been on the tomahawk as a colonial/trade weapon - but I'd certainly like to work on the latest evolution. Engr105th 21:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Boarding axes are primarily weapons, at least from my POV. I believe I read that bit about Tomahawks when helping research the USMC NCO Sword article on here. In the 40's they ceased production of "swords, cutlasses, tomahawks", etc. I think I may have a link to the actual document somewhere. Anyway, your name is red because you do not have a "User Page". You can email me directly if you wish Probably easier than wikiying back and forth. Mike Searson 22:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Modern usage of the term "tomahawk"

In Australia at least, Tomahawk is a generic slang term for a small axe, generally used to chop of kindling or similar. I think this should be mentioned somewhere? I get the impression from this article that a tomahawk is solely an ancient weapon or a military weapon. (unsigned comment by 202.63.46.37)

I think in American teminology a small hand-axe primarily used as a tool would be a hatchet. The term "hand-axe" was I believe more used for a boarding axe, which was generally a close-quarters weapon. But you have a point -- tomahawks would clearly have been used as tools as much or more than weapons, and that should probably be mentioned. Loren.wilton (talk) 23:12, 4 January 2008 (UTC)