Talk:Tipi

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[edit] Wigwam

Is a tipi identical (or roughly identical) to a wigwam? Wigwam redirects here but the term never comes up in the article. Jwrosenzweig 16:12, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The phrase may not be too exact, at least not in its common usage. Do a Google image search on "wigwam" and you'll see tipis as well as the dome-type structure that I associate with the word. See this page, e.g. I believe that the latter is the sort of dwelling to which the word properly assigned and assume that over time the word became loosely associated with many other sorts of structures. But I'm not the expert – this sounds like an opportunity for some research and a new article from someone. - Kbh3rd 17:06, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Hi.
I'm not an anthropologist, but I know a little about this. I think that generally the terms wigwam and wickiup refer to the domed dwellings built many indigenous peoples of North America while tipis refer to the conical dwellings. It seems to me that wigwam is used for tribes in eastern North America and wickiup is used for tribes in western and southwestern America. But, I also believe that many also do not distinguish between domed or conical dwellings in which case tipi and wigwam may be interchangeable (which would explain this redirect, I guess). Some peoples used conical dwelling while others used domed dwellings and still others used both (sometimes for different purposes).
Wigwam and wickiup are also used to refer to somewhat similar dwellings used by non-American peoples. The terms have even been extended to simple huts and shantys created by Euro-Americans.
I recently created an article for wickiup with description & pictures so you can check that out. Perhaps wigwam should redirect there for now. My knowledge is mostly restricted to Southern Athabaskan cultures which the article reflects in my anthropological selection about Chiricahua Apache wickiups.
Derivations of the terms: (according to OED)
Wickiup and wigman are derived from the same word(s) (from words in different but related languages).
  • wickiup   <   [(Menominee wikiop, Saki wekeab; cf. Cree mekewap, Montagnais mitshiuap); perhaps a variant of wikiwam, wigwam]
  • wigwam   <   [Ojibwa wigwaum, wigiwam, variant of Algonquin weekuwom, wikiwam (Delaware wiquoam) lit. 'their house' (cf. neek 'my house', keek 'thy house', week 'his house')]

The Wigwam page states "The use of these terms by non-Native Americans is somewhat arbitrary and can refer to many distinct types of Native American structures regardless of location or cultural group including the tipi." Which seems to embrace the loose use of the term "wigwam" and negate the "incorrectly" in the opening to this article. I've softened that to "some feel incorrectly" in consequence, unless and until somebody can reconcile the two articles so they agree rather more with each other on that loose, generic usage of the word "wigwam" Jacob (talk) 00:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I disagree - in Dakota country (Dakotas, southern 2/3 of Minnesota) and western Ojibwe country (Western Wisconsin and northern 1/3 of MN) Tipi and Wigwam terminology are very separate, even within the non-native community. This area is also the border lands between the Dakota and Ojibwe so there is a clear understanding of who-is-living-in-what as both sides have had ongoing hostilities for several hundred years. Dinkytown (talk) 08:59, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Then perhaps that should be in this article and in the Wigwam article, as currently the two articles disagree about whether the term "wigwam" can be used for both, and so some measure of clarification is needed. Jacob (talk) 09:33, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing this out. I reworded the Wigwam introduction to better reflect the differences between the two structures. I know the tipi very well, since I made a few with some Lakota, but I know very little about the wigwam, although over the years I've been in only two and both of them were Ojibwe. The wickiup I have never heard of as a term. Not a common word in Minnesota - take care... Dinkytown (talk) 03:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

This doesn't seem to be NPOV:"Today, they are usually covered in canvas and lived in by hippies in the world's rich countries." --burnt in effigy 02:52, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

No, I don't like that either, and it's been on my to-do list for a long time. Haven't gotten around to researching a good description of the various uses to which they're put these days. Certainly a few rich hippies, and perhaps a few poor ones, too. But their users are more eclectic bunch than that. They're also used by historical re-enactors such as who frequent the rendevouz, e.g., and others who enjoy outdoor living with a twist. (The fellow I know who has one and taught me how to put one up is certainly no hippie, though. Neither am I – I want a tipi but don't have one. Yet.) Kbh3rd 00:21, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Still, we probably should have more here about the cultural appropriation of the tipi as a symbol of Indianness. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:56, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wigwam, tipi, wickiup: the differences

Please see my post (and, hopefully, a discussion) at Talk:Wickiup#Wigwam, tipi, wickiup: the differences. — Nowhither 02:20, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Wigwam is a dirivative from the Anishinabe language which means house made of bark. Tipi is the plains tipi comming from the plural of the Lakota word Ti which means to live. All nouns in Lakota can be verbs, and most of the time the reciprical is true. This is a case of a verb becomming a noun. In Sioux it simply means house. It should also be noted that the tipi continues to be used as a tent on the plains by Indian people at various summertime gatherings by those who have them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.111.90.212 (talk • contribs) 3 Nov 2005

[edit] Best?

There is a great Tipi book out there but a married couple ... I'll add the citation later (they have plans from most tipis). They state the best was the lakota type ones. JDR 19:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Found it: Laubin, Reginald, Gladys Laubin, (Tatanka Wanjila na Wiyaka Wastewin) and Stanley Vestal, The Indian tipi : its history, construction, and use". 2nd ed., Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1957. LCCN 57005958
I highly recomment anyone interested in Tipis to read this book. JDR 19:17, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning

Various references on Lakhota agree that =pi is a pluralizing enclitic (similar to a suffix; e.g. [1]). Marianne Mithun (The Languages of Native North America, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1999, pg. 508) says that thí is a verb meaning "to dwell," and glosses thí=pi as "they dwell." The comment above seems to corroborate this. Since it's backed up by several different sources, I'm going to be bold and mention this slightly more detailed etymology in the article; if it's incorrect, someone more knowledgable on Lakhota than me can change it. --Whimemsz 21:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I've taken off the cleanup (since August 2006) template as there has not been any discussion started on what needs cleanup. If the editor who added it wants to discuss the changes they think are needed they can discuss it here and restore the tag. Clappingsimon talk 02:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The editor who added it was concerned that the article lacked a sufficiently 'encyclopedic voice'. Clappingsimon talk 02:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I think my concern was that the "Construction" section read more like an unencyclopedic "how-to" manual, but really it is just a factual account of how a tipi is constructed. Apparently I wasn't reading too closely. It really is a well-written article--thanks for all your hard work on it. Now if only we could keep all the schoolkids who are writing papers on tipis to stop vandalizing it... Katr67 05:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hmm...

What's it called when people take toilet paper and cover someone else's house with it? W1k13rh3nry 23:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Immature. 68.59.222.161 18:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
'That's called "teepee", or "I teepeed his/her house". This is a common high school prank in the upper mid-west of the US, usually because a young boy/girl (victim) is well liked by one or more young boys/girls (pranksters). That would be an interesting article to kick out and find the history behind it… Dinkytown (talk) 02:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
My correction - it is "T-P-ing", as in Toilet Paper... [2]. Dinkytown (talk) 02:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ozan?

Accordingn to this article and the ozan stub, that's the inner lining in a tipi. According to my tipi construction book, which I do not have at hand right now, the ozan is a sort of ceiling stretched horizontally over part of the interior. If I recall correctly. Is anyone here knowledgeable enough on this to verify and correct the articles if necessary? --Kbh3rdtalk 16:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I have the laubin book. I'll see what they say when I can get to it. I think that it's a roof that is at the top of the lining. Like you said, a ceiling stretched horizontally over half of the interior. J. D. Redding 06:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)