Talk:Timeline of first orbital launches by country

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[edit] Alouette 1?

I realize it was launched by the Americans, but this satellite has all-Canadian engineering. What are the precise guidelines concerning this list? Radagast 04:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

From the intro: "have sent objects into orbit using their own launch systems. " Rmhermen 23:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Yup, building a sattelite is meaningless unless you can launch it. Vastu 09:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, but shouldn't the Alouette be listed in the "Not Included" section if Australia's subsequent launch, also using an American launcher, is included? The Canadian satellite was launched in 1962. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.74.79.161 (talk) 06:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
There are several other countries that have had satellites launched by third parties, not just Canada and Australia. Some of these have been developed "in-house", others contracted out to the third party with the more developed space program. This activity probably deserves a different list.--Pharos 17:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japan

I thought their first launch in 1970 was a failure, and the launch infact took place in 1971? Or are we including 'almost successfull' launches, in which case, India's was 1979? Vastu 09:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

According to the article and its links the 1970 launch was a success - which is the purpose of this list -not failures. Rmhermen 00:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ESA

Query: Why is the ESA included in this list, even if it is granted that it is a single entity? In any sense of which I am aware, the ESA is neither a nationality nor a nation, nor does it have standing in either category with the United Nations. "Nationality" implies a wide range of features, and the ESA exhibits virtually none of them. The ESA is a space agency. Perhaps a solution is the change the entry to refer to the "EU", instead.

However, a question may also be asked whether it is appropriate to include international efforts such as represented by the ESA as an entry on the list if international efforts such as Canada's and Australia's are not.

Further, please consider that the inclusion of the ESA means that the efforts of two of the ESA's countries (the U.K. and France) are double-counted, since they each are listed as having launched their own satellites. I have a philosophical problem with this double-counting, because part of the reason behind having the list of nationalities capable of satellite launches is the denotation of the level of development of such nationality. If, as patently obvious, two nations in and of themselves had already launched their own satellites, as is the case with Britain and France, then it is logical to conclude that their combined efforts would be sufficient to do so, as well. In this sense, the listing of ESA's launch is a mere superfluity because it only restates the obvious fact that the nations that make up the ESA are satellite launch-capable. We already know this from the fact that France, a founding member of the ESA, launched its first satellite well prior to the formation of the ESA. This said, therefore, what does naming the ESA's first launch contribute to our understanding of "nationalities" and their capability to launch satellites into space?

This also raises the question of the Soviet Union and Russia (and perhaps, Ukraine). See below. But the ESA is an actual space agency that is not a direct successor to anything else so it probably deserves its own entry.--Pharos 17:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clearer guidelines - Ukraine?

I suggest we need clearer guidelines. Which items of the following have to be "in-house" to a country for a launch to qualify: (1) the rocket, (2) the satellite, (3) the launch facility, (4) the space agency conducting the launch. The rocket seems like the most basic criterion, but if that's all we're looking at we've missed Ukraine's Zenit rocket and its other launchers, which however seems to fall short on the other points. Or is Ukraine's "first" already considered filled by the Soviet Union launches?--Pharos 17:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I support the suggestion that ESA be removed -- it isn't a country or a nationality. I support the requirement that the launch vehicle and rocket engines must be manufactured in and launched from the territorial boundaries of the country in question. (Someone should figure out the first orbital launch from within post-Soviet Russia. Maybe a launch from Plesetsk Cosmodrome?) I support the requirement that the organization performing the launch must be strongly associated with the nationality in question. I weakly oppose the requirement that the satellite payload must be constructed within the country in question, as this timeline is rather more about launch capability than it is about satellite construction. (In the power politics of launch capability, the satellites are mainly just placeholders for warheads anyway. ;-) (sdsds - talk) 07:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
But the problem is this would cut out Prospero X-3, which is I think a pretty widely-acknowledged "first launch" as the premier (and only) such effort by UK, which did however take off from Australian soil. So, if we agree to include the UK, and not add Ukraine, it seems we should go for (1) and (4).--Pharos 03:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename?

The ESA really doesn't fit into the "nationality" paradigm at all. Perhaps this should be renamed Timeline of first orbital launches by governmental space programs or something to that effect?--Pharos 18:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed Timeline of first orbital launches by country as the result of a move request listed at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Dekimasuよ! 09:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't Ariel 3 count?

As early as 1967, Britain had launched its first satellite: Ariel 3. It was lauched from the USA, but it would still count as the first British orbital launch wouldn't it? The BBC describes it as "the first All-British satellite". --J. Atkins (talk | contribs) 10:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

It may have been an "all-British satellite", but it was launched by the American Scout rocket.--Pharos 09:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks; I've noted this in the Not included section.--J. Atkins (talk - contribs) 21:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Korea

A South Korean launch (Korea Space Launch Vehicle I [KSLV-I]) from their new spaceport is upcoming. But when? Initially reported as sometime in 2007, it now seems to have slipped to 2008[1]. Can we find anything more exact? Rmhermen 04:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn10876 might help provide some background info. (sdsds - talk) 06:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, I'm sure we'll all hear about it when they do launch. I guess it's a race of sorts now between them and Brazil as to who will be next.--Pharos 17:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Brazil is back in the race? I missed that? Rmhermen 18:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Found this on Brazil: [2] It looks like they haven't even started rebuilding their spaceport yet. Rmhermen 18:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another list needed

We're long overdue for a Timeline of first satellites by country. Time to clear out that Not included section.--Pharos 17:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that would likely be even more confused than this one. Is it a "first" if your country builds 50% of a satellite? Or builds one instrument? Rmhermen 18:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, there are two issues actually, building and ownership; Iran didn't build Sinah-1, but it is still considered an Iranian satellite. If we're going to have a cutoff for joint projects, I think 50% coming from the country would be a reasonable one.--Pharos 18:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
From our article, you can't tell that they didn't build Sinah-1, but that article is a mess. Rmhermen 18:41, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
It was in the original version, which I wrote back in 2005 when it was launched (Why was it deleted in the first place... national pride? the tendency toward entropy in the universe? who knows?). Anyway, I've restored that bit now. And I'm pretty sure Iran isn't alone in hiring another country to build their satellite.--Pharos 19:33, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not included

The things that I removed were cluttering up the list.

  • The UK entry obviously does not belong here because the British government contracted NASA to do it for them.
  • The Iraq entry doesn’t even include a satellite.
  • The Iran entry was just a sounding rocket

There are dozens of launches that could be in the “not included” list, and I think there is really no reason to include these ones. – Zntrip 03:03, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the UK entry, are you saying that the Not included section only lists countries which coodinated their own launch but without their own launch vehicles (as, like you said, the UK contracted NASA for the launch)? If so, ok. However I remember seeing a documentary about the UK having launched satellites from the Isle of Wight (not sure, though). Thanks for your work on this article. --J. Atkins (talk - contribs) 15:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

That is what I'm saying. I looked up the Isle of Wight, but the rocket launches were just tests and they had no payloads. – Zntrip 22:46, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Zntrip: with this edit you, or someone using your account, added to the article several changes which are difficult to explain as anything other than vandalisms. This doesn't give you much credibility! Is there a good faith way to explain this? Did you perhaps have difficulty retyping some of the material? (sdsds - talk) 01:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, haven't been to this page in a while. As for the edit, I screwed up, but I fixed it with another edit. Anyway, that's old news now. – Zntrip 04:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iran launches rocket

Iran launched a rocket today that put a test satellite in orbit marking the opening on their new space center and response to Israel's recent ICBM test. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.18.7.157 (talk) 03:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Most reliable sources are reporting this as a sub-orbital launch of a test vehicle. The plan is to launch the first satellite on a subsequent vehicle. (sdsds - talk) 03:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


The satellite that was launched today is called the Safir. The future satellite is going to be called Ormid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.18.7.157 (talk) 03:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, DEBKAfile reports the name of the rocket as "Safir 1". They claim it reached space atop an "improved Shahab-3 which has a 4,000 km range". That doesn't make it a satellite in orbit! (sdsds - talk) 05:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trimming down “Not included” section

For the sake of brevity and to exclude information that is moving away from the main focus of this page, I propose we remove all content regarding sub-orbital, failed, cancelled, or forthcoming programmes. – Zntrip 18:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that it doesn't really belong in this article, but I think we should move it somewhere else, because much of it is valuable information, and people keep adding it here. — Swpbtalk.edits 23:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

If we find a timeline article, I think it would fit there. – Zntrip 00:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

It might be that the "Not included" section is here specifically to discourage other editors from adding this material (for the zillionth time) to the main section. (sdsds - talk) 04:33, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
We can do that, of course, with hidden text. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 04:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)