Talk:Theresienstadt concentration camp

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Has all discussion and history on this page been removed by admins? ---BobLoblaw 07:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Simply, no discussion since the page was created. You are the second here. Pavel Vozenilek 22:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Dates?

Part of this article reads:

On 3 May 1945 control of the camp was transferred from the Germans to the Red Cross. Five days later, on 5 May 1945 Terezín was liberated by Soviet troops.

May 5 is not five days later than May 3. Which is the correct date, May 5 (as stated) or May 8 (as implied by "Five days later")? The 5 May 1945 was just added, but I'm not sure that that means it's wrong...

Hbackman 22:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I have read several sources which confirm the arrival of Soviet troops at the camp on May 8. However, I also have one source which dates the arrival of the Red Cross as May 5, with the official control of the camp passing to Soviet officials on the morning of May 9 (Women of Theresienstadt, Ruth Schwertfeger 1988).

I also have another source which does not mention the arrival of the Red Cross previous to the liberation of the camp by Soviet troops. That source (Theresienstadt, Vera Schiff 1996) is a personal memior by a Czech Jewish nurse, who writes extensively on the typhus epidemic brought to Theresienstadt by death marchers from Birkenau on April 24. Schiff also states that death marchers under SS guard were brought to the camp during the last two weeks of April.

Schiff writes of the camp internees realizing only on the morning of May 8 that SS guards were not present to stop them from approaching the walls to watch the oncoming Soviet tanks, at which point they cut their way out through a section of chain-link. I find it puzzeling how a camp nurse would end up omitting the presense of the Red Cross, although I have left that section unchanged. Curious.

Paganolive 01:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

I have uploaded 3 photos which might help add to the view on Terezin

  • Entrance to the camp with distinctive styling.

Collieman 16:04, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article's name and language (concentration camp vs. ghetto)

I'd appreciate an explanation of:

* why the article's name doesn't begin with Theresienstadt, and doesn't include Terezin
* its predominant (per its title) yet internally inconsistent use of "concentration camp" rather than "ghetto"

Redirects aside, I'd have thought this article to be entitled somewhat otherwise, e.g. Theresienstadt (Terezin) ghetto.

I'd like to read some discussion here on the above points, as I'm quite new to editing Wikipedia, and Holocaust topics are my primary area of endeavor (corresponding with RL :-)
Thanks, Deborahjay 05:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

The designation "concentration camp" is confusing but not wrong. It´s mentioned in the article that Terezín was a ghetto for privileged Jews from Germany, "Czechoslovakia" and Austria. In fact, it was founded by Heydrich as a transit CAMP for Czech Jews only. For instance, people could not walk on the pavement, and the living conditions were tougher than in the later period.
More than 90 % of Protectorate Jews were transported to Terezín!
The CAMP became a GHETTO - and, partially, an "Altersghetto" (i.e., for older and/or privileged Ŕeich Jews) only after HEydrich was assasinated. As late as June 1942, first non-Protectorate Jews were deported to Terezín.
TO be exact, there was one more designation used for Terezín. In the spring of 1944, it became "area of settlement" instead of "ghetto".
The twists in the tactics of the Nazis meant Terezín was quite a different place in 1941, 1942, 1944 and 1945.
This is well described in the book by HG Adler - a magnum opus of the "Holocaust science". Highly recommended...

When I was in Theresienstadt, there were two places - the fortress, which was definitely a camp, and the town, which I believe may have contained a ghetto (but I'm not sure abou this). The fortress, which was the prison for Jews during the war, would never qualify as a ghetto - people didn't LIVE there, they were IMPRISONED there. And that, to me, is a quite big difference. --Alvestrand 15:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

Why are there no citations? If this is to be viewed as a credible article, the dates and events mentioned need to be cited. ~~ Kyle

So long as there is no any credible citations, all this sounds as science fiction. ~~ Martin


You don't need citations when being anti-nazi. Look on the holocaust page and you will see a coloured photo with no citations claiming to be of Jewish victims. Subsequently the Jews have altered history, and refer to Theresienstadt as a death camp. --Saintrotter 22:27, 28 February 2007

Nobody refers to Theresienstadt as a death camp over here, my dear 'historian'.Jeff5102 22:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


Did this camp avoid the "death camp" name because it seems to have avoided typhus to the degree other camps had the disease? Any idea of the normal population of the camp. 144,000 but not all at once I assume. The final survival amount 17000+- may be a good start. 159.105.80.141 15:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


Are the deaths listed a count of people who died ( and were buried ) at this camp or a count of anyone who had ever been here. From what records are the numbers taken?159.105.80.141 15:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Without citations, you should not put any figures down. Cite your sources. Magicana 00:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Why is it called concentration camp instead of compulsory deportation ghetto? As far as I know, people have not been killed or murdered there, they have not been "punished" or tortured sadistically, being obliged every morning or evening to stand for hours in order to be counted and things like that.

Austerlitz -- 88.72.30.183 10:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

"Concentration camp" doesn't mean "death camp". The people were concentrated there, not necessarily exterminated. On the other hand, people indeed were punished, tortured and murdered there. It's only that it wasn't on the industrial scale as in Auschwitz, for example. ...accountless person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.220.223.216 (talk) 18:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

It had features of 'Concentration Camp' and features of 'Ghetto', so both terms should be used, with realisation that we are accepting Nazi terminology, itself intended to be mendacious as well as being irredeemably imprecise because of the inherent arbitrariness characteristic of Nazism. So I would write somethin like "... referred to both as a concentration camp and a ghetto", which is factually correct. The Wikipedia page on 'Internment' handles clarification of the terms very well. The Czech name Terezin should be given with its proper accent and I'd appreciate a pronunciation if possible; could both be done by a Czech to get them right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilmslow (talk • contribs) 02:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

In Czech, it's written "Terezín", with a "carka" above i. I hope it displays correctly. As for pronounciation, I guess I'd better leave it to someone who actually knows how to upload such thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.220.223.216 (talk) 12:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Children in Theresienstadt

The article states: "There were 15,000 children living in the children's home inside the camp; only 93 of those children survived." For years I had been given, and had seen at Beit Terezin in Israel, a figure of 150 surviving children out of 15000, remarkably round figures. Both Yad Vashem and the Terezín Initiative Institute (www.holocaust.cz) give figures which seem to be very different. Friends who recently looked for the data at Yad Vashem came back with figures as follows: 7700 children entered T, of whom 1234 (this oddly mnemonic figure is not a mistake by me but the figure they found) survived the war.The Terezín Initiative Institute informs me: 'There were 10.500 children prisoners (under 14 years before deportation to Terezín) in Terezín Concentration Camp of whom 2300 survived the Holocaust and 700 died in Terezín. A couple of people professionally concerned with Holocaust education suggest to me that the apparent wide discrepancies relate to a very late influx of children who had a much higher survival rate than those in Terezín earlier. Could different age criteria for 'child' play a part? How many children were in T but not in 'the children's home'? My sister and I were two such, but I have no idea how many others there were. What about the Dutch 'Barneveld group' which was sent to T? Did it include a significant number of children? Were there Danish children? Were there other special groups with outcomes very different from that suggested in the current page?

Could someone who knows the documentary evidence comment and if possible edit the page to clarify these figures including legitimate uncertainties?

In view of the widespread interest in children in Theresienstadt, some of it reflected in the article, a section (even a page?) specifically on the children would surely be appreciated by many, including those who use 'I Never Saw Another Butterfly' and 'Brundibar' educationally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilmslow (talk • contribs) 03:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)