Talk:Theme from Star Trek

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[edit] Lyrics

I have removed the lyrics as copyvio per WP:LYRICS. 23skidoo 16:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to note that your edit comment "Wikipedia policy prohibits the use of copyrighted song lyrics" is not entirely true, and fair use of the lyrics depends on the circumstances, with some guidance on the very page you quote. However, in this case, the lyrics may indeed not be notable enough to warrant an inclusion, although I doubt we'd have legal problems if including them, as I doubt Snopes has by using them on their page, especially as we have an article here written about the theme and aren't simply reposting the lyrics. Note that there's no general rule against copyrighted lyrics on Wikipedia, just advise to judge the situation before removing something in order to avoid copyright paranoia. -- Northgrove 00:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a distinction to be made between citing an example from lyrics (like citing a passage from a book) vs. restating the entire lyrics. Just because another website might post the entire lyrics doesn't mean they are legally safe, just that nobody has sued them yet. But I don't see any harm in citing the first line or two from the lyrics, to give the reader of "flavor" of them. Wahkeenah 13:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Theremin

From the article: "It is also one of the best known pieces played on the theremin."

Does this mean it was played on the theremin in the actual series or by people covering the melody later? In my episodes it's quite clear that a woman sings the melody line and in the instrumental version, it sounds like the melody line is played by a string instrument. Davhorn 20:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I wondered about that too. I would slap a "cn" tag on it if I were you. The first year version was a straight orchestral instrumental. The second-third year version was obviously a female voice singing "ooh, ooooh, oo-oo-oo-oo-ooooh." And let's not forget the bongo drums that were in there someplace. I kid you not. Wahkeenah 20:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I did that, let's see if someone finds a reference. Davhorn 00:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure Trekkers watch these pages frequently, so if there's no citation within a week or so, I would delete it. Wahkeenah 00:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I see you zapped it. It occurs to me that someone heard that female vocalist going "ooh-oooooh, ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh" and thought it was a theremin, even though the article clearly states it was a vocalist. That's technically known as "original research", if not pure speculation. As I've found from bitter experience, there can be a fine line between O.R. and "guessing". Wahkeenah 13:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that's my guess as well. The old VHS tapes had worse sound quality compared to today's DVDs so that might have made it sound more nonhuman too. Davhorn 18:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I recall the first time I heard it, on the first run of the first episode of season 2, and how I didn't like it very well compared with the straight instrumental of season 1. However, there was no doubt in my mind even then that it was a human voice. Wahkeenah 18:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

(it's just a jump to the left...) If anyone wants to take the time to pursue this, Courage talks about this in the documentary. I don't have time to rewatch it right now, but I believe he said something about how he did a mix of instrumentals and vocals with the intent of creating something that sounded like neither, so that people would ask "what the heck is that?" But ( according to Courage) Roddenberry had them remix the female vocal way up, basically because he was a horn-dog. (Hey, I'm just reporting what he said -- you don't think Courage was bitter over the whole lyrics thing, by any chance?)

I don't believe there was any discussion of whether this remix happened in between seasons, or if there was any mention of a Theremin anywhere in there. I also don't have any of the episodes on tape, so I cannot personally verify the "first season instrumental, 2nd and 3rd vocal" statements made here; I'm trusting others are obsessive enough to be reporting this faithfully.--NapoliRoma 21:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, here's what Courage said:

I wrote it for a marvelous lady named Loulie Jean Norman, plus a flute, Jack Cookerly's organ, and maybe a vibraphone. And the whole idea was to mix it in so that it would be a "what is that that I'm hearing?" sound, you know. It came off fine—till Gene got his hands on it. He wanted to hear the girl more, because he was such a sex maniac, and so he had her sort of pushed up a little bit in the mix, and it sounded like a soprano solo after that.

So no theremin, and now you know what happened between seasons one and two.--NapoliRoma 18:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Courage agreed to lyrics written without his knowledge?

I just did some rewriting in the article, some of which is based on an excellent viedoe documentary on Courage, which I recommend highly to anyone interested in such things -- see the links to Youtube clips in the article. This documentary is not in IMDB, which is surprising, given its quality.

However, I left one contradictory bit in, as I don't have the time at the moment to see what the correct answer is. Did Courage agree initially to the lyrics, or were they written without his knowledge? Or is it that he agreed to the lyrics being written and somehow missed the real intent, which was to snag half the royalties?--NapoliRoma 20:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Roddenberry wrote the lyrics without his knowledge, as far as I know, so he could get half of the royalties. Courage said what he did was unethical, but didn't pursue it further. Davhorn 21:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Star Trek soundtracks deletion discussion

Someone is trying to delete the ctaegory Category:Star Trek soundtracks. Please go to the talk page, and try to keep this category in existence. Thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 14:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)