Talk:The Treble

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Contents

[edit] Continental Trebles

I took my time to see who won the main continental championships and how they did domestically that season. The biggest problem was that sometimes the, say, Asian championship ran during a calendar year but the domestic season ran during the traditional sept-may season. Or vice versa. In these cases, I usually went with the domestic calendar to establish when the "season" took place and saw if during that period the continental championship was won. Further, while I looked for Treble winners, I didn't look for Near Trebles or Other Trebles ie, teams that won say the domestic double and the continental Cup Winners Cup. This is a link to internationl competition lists, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28soccer%29_around_the_world And this is a link to the main continental championships, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:International_club_football_%28soccer%29_competitions Anyone else who has the time to see what other trebles or near trebles are out there, this is probably a good place to start. And anyone else who wants to see what continental trebles I might have overlooked because of my definition of a "single season," this would also be the place to start. Nygoodliving 05:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Near Trebles

Does anyone else think this list is too long? I would suggest that the minimum requirement to be in this list would be to win one competition and be runners-up in two. What do others think? 212.140.167.99 14:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I definetly think a near treble should only be considered "near" if you make it to the final or are at least the runners-up in all three competitions. It actually began when someone listed the Leeds team in 1970, but they only reached the semifinals of the Euro Cup. I'd love to change it, but without more input, I don't want to take the time since someone will likely go back and just revert my changes. Anyone else want to weigh in? Nygoodliving 02:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

What does everyone else think? Am I in a minority of two?212.140.167.99 19:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, having semi finalists in it is silly Kie 23:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


I have removed this from near trebles

  • Manchester United - The 2008 team won the English Premier League and the UEFA Champions League, but lost in the quarter finals of the FA Cup. If they would had won the FA cup they would be the only club to ever win the European Treble twice.

I agree that this section should only include winners and runners up. QF or SF shouldn't feature or the list just get too long! for example would also have to include Chelsea 2007 (RU League, FACup winners, SF European cup) and Manchester united 2007 (League winners, RU FACup, SF European cup

(Statto999 (talk) 16:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Liverpool

Should Liverpool really be on the list, as the article says that the teams in the second list won a treble consisting of their domestic league, their major domestic cup competition and the European Cup/UEFA Champions League, but Liverpool won the Football League Cup, while the major domestic cup was the FA Cup, so they didn't do it as the article says?--84.12.24.98 15:39, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree with this - any domestic cup competition will do, so Liverpool do count. The discussion should not be swayed by Man Utd fans' views [I am neutral - my team has never won any kind of treble]. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 80.229.146.148 (talk • contribs)

Okay, let's keep this neutral. I don't know of any source prior to 1999 that referred to anything in England other than league/FA Cup/European Cup as "the treble". If you know of one, please cite it - that's how edit wars are avoided. It was seen as something that would probably never be achieved - the double, which was rare enough before the 90s, plus the European Cup. Obviously once Manchester United had won the treble, Liverpool fans felt the need to claim one and decided that whatever random collection of trophies they could manage would count.
Do you think that "any domestic cup competition will do" for the double as well? If not, why the difference? Image:Yemen flag large.png CTOAGN (talk) 21:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
In 1999, Manchester United actually did the "quadruple", as they won the Premier League, the FA Cup, the UEFA Champions League and they won the European/South American Cup against Palmeiras which is hardly a minor competition, all in the 1998/99 season so should they be in an extra section or something like that?--GingerM 18:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Here's a cite from The Daily Telegraph after the 1994 League Cup Final with "the treble" as a domestic treble: [1]
Manchester United's dream of the treble is over after they were outplayed and out-thought by Aston Villa who clinched a place in next season's UEFA Cup with a thoroughly deserved victory.
Personally, I think the article should be moved to treble (football) where the nuances of "winning a treble" vs "winning the treble" could be addressed. As far as I can see, if any team late in the season is in line to win the Double plus either the League Cup or the Champions League, then people will speculate about whether they will win "the treble"; any other combination of 3 trophies would be "a treble". Many countries either have only one Cup (so a domestic treble is impossible) or are small (so European success is implausible). The English shift in meaning reflects the decline in importance of the League Cup. Joestynes 13:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I've tried to make the difference between domestic and European trebles clearer. Several European leagues have two cups (usually one is open to (almost) all clubs, and the other is limited to the highest league, or even more restricted), making a domestic treble a possibility. On the European level, I agree that there is only one treble, which includes the win of the UEFA Champions League (if you then also win the European Super Cup, you could even achieve a quadruple). Crix 02:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Should Liverpool's treble in 2001 of the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup count, since none of them are minor competitions. This has winning a major European trophy as well as winning the major domestic cup. Instead of the league, they won the league cup. And if Manchester United should be counted as a quadruple in 1999, then Liverpool should get a quintuple for 2001. Though both of these aren't 'The Treble', they are still trebles.

I suspect the argument will rage on; as the opening para indicates the treble should include winning the domestic league, I've added a note to Liverpool. Suggest either the opening para is amended, or the note is kept. Paulbrock 12:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The opening para definitely needs changing if the treble 'only' refers to winning the FA Cup, the Champions League and the domestic League.

"The Treble is a term in football that generally refers to a club winning their country's top tier league and two cup competitions in the same season."  We can't have it both ways where the definition in the first para, does not match the contents of the article. I am talking specifically about Liverpool in 1984. I'm sure there are other cases, are there? So either Liverpool won a treble or not as per the definition? Change the definition by all means, but lets get the article correct. We all know fans of certain clubs will argue about definitions, but I know many Liverpool fans who were overjoyed when they won the 'treble' in 1984. They didn't make a song and dance about it for years, just like Celtic don't about the Quadruple.

[edit] Capitalisation

The Treble or The treble? Discuss. At the moment the article uses one in the title and the other in the first line, which doesn't look great, plus it means that [[the treble]] gets redirected. Which one do you think we should use? Image:Yemen flag large.png CTOAGN (talk) 22:02, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The distinction is very simple. Liverpool won "a" treble, Man Utd won "the" treble.

Please explain where the different articles can be found. If winning 3 trophies is a treble, but there is a "THE" treble, why don't we have separate articles? I feel certain that if Manchester United would of won the UEFA cup instead, that would of been THE treble!


[edit] Domestic trebles

It would be nice to explain for each of the teams listed as to what their trebles actually consisted of. I've done this for Bayern München (even though I hate them). For example, I couldn't find any information what the Maltese club actually won to earn their trebles, and for the trebles of Shamrock FC, it says in the footnote that "it consisted of league, cup, and shield". There are articles on the Irish leage and cup, but there is no mention of any shield whatsoever. Also, if this Irish shield bears any resemblance to the English FA Community Shield, this wouldn't qualify as actually winning the treble. Pls. advise. Crix 03:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I finished filling in the domestic table. There were two removals I made. I removed the Malta team because Malta appears to only have one cup competition. The other isn't a competition, it's a supercup that I could find no info on. I also removed the Israeli team as at the time of their treble, they won the league, state cup and Uefa intertoto group stage. First they don't belong in the domestic table because at that time, 1978, Israel didn't have two cups like it does today. Second, I'm not sure this is a treble at all because the third "win" was winning the Intertoto group stage at a time when the Intertoto didn't declare a winner at all. Just letting you know.... Nygoodliving 06:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Levski Sofia treble

I suggest adding Levski Sofia because in 1984 they won the bulgarian trebla winning the championship, the cup and the soviet army cup becoming the only team in Bulgaria winning three cups in one season. Although by that time the Soviet army cup didn't give a Uefa or CWC place it was still higly valued. What do you think?

[edit] Chelsea (NEW)or other Charity shield victories

Chelsea - The 2005 team won the English Premier League, League Cup and the FA Community Shield

I don't think anyone can seriously consider this a treble. I've removed it from the list.212.140.167.99 14:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm also not sure that trebles involving the European Supercup or Intercontinental cup should be listed but I haven't removed them because that is more subjective. 212.140.167.99 14:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


I don't think that the Charity shield or any single match trophy should count towards a Treble (or a 3 trophy haul for that matter.) I don't think any fans of Manchester United are calling 2008 a Treble season after winning League, European cup and Charity shield.

Including the charity shield would lengthen the list in an unnecessary and quite meaningless way. Off the Top of my head you would then have to consider 1977, 1986 as "3 trophy seasons" for liverpool (making 1984 a "4 Trophy season) or 1994 2008 for Mancheseter United or as pointed out above 2005 for chelsea. (Statto999 (talk) 10:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC))

In general, no one counts the charity shield in trophies won at the end of a season - definitely not as part of a treble or double. the charity shield and european supercups are one off games less for the clubs and more for the associations/charities - they shouldn't really be considered a part of the regular seasonJw2034 (talk) 16:29, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CSKA Does Not Qualify? Why?

This makes no sense. They won the Russian League (League Championship), their country's major cup (Russian Cup) and then the UEFA Cup (European Cup). And yet they do not qualify??? This is complete nonesense... Put CSKA where they belong, and stop with the East vs West garbage...

[edit] International trebles

I don´think Brazil 94-97 qualifies in here, cause before the 1997 Copa America, there was the 1995 Copa America won by Uruguay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.64.55.202 (talk) 16:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but Brazil held the three trophies at the same time - the 1997 copa america, 1994 world cup and 1997 confederations cup making it a trebleJw2034 (talk) 06:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

I've sectioned The Treble and The Double catagories to Domestic, International, European, etc... and tidied them up a bit. I've also added some explanation with regards to usage of 'The Treble' as opposed to 'a treble'; anything that is not either a European, Continental, International or Domestic Treble should not be referred to as 'The Treble'; notably references to Liverpool's 2001 3 trophies should be 'a treble' (at a push) - it keeps ending up listed under European Treble which it is not! I've also aded Career treble - a list of players here would be good (dont think it's too many).Jw2034 (talk) 13:12, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] European Triple Crown???

I know that this was not obtained in a single season, but surely it deserves a mention that Ajax,Juve and Bayern Munich have done this feat?

For those who dont know about it, The Triple crown was never a real award, but it so called as a team who has won all 3 european contests at any time during the instinction. Only a handful of clubs can win it, and some of the big teams will never do it as they never won the CWC(Real Madrid and Liverpool the main examples)

Heyesy (talk) 12:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)