Talk:The Number of the Beast (novel)

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Assessment comments

It is one of the 'Lazarus Long' set of books, involving time travel, parallel dimensions, free love, voluntary incest, and a concept that Heinlein named pantheistic solopsism (I think) - the theory that universes are created by the act of imagining them so that somewhere Oz is real.

Opinion is divided among science fiction fans as to whether this and other late Heinlein novels are brilliant, creative and original, or simply the wishfulfillment of a man in his second childhood.

Other books in this set include - To Sail Beyond the Sunset, Methuselah's Children, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls and Time Enough For Love.

above three paragraphs exact duplicate of another Heinlein novel -- only need to be said once. --Ed Poor


It's called Pan-Theistic Multi-Ego Solipsism, In short, each man or woman mentally creates their own universe or multiverse, AKA "World as a Myth" 69.207.233.152 (talk) 01:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] "contender...worst novel"

If so, then I'm a *much* less selective reader than I'd like to think I am. It's, for example, *much* better than Clancy's Rainbow Six (novel) and The Teeth of the Tiger.
--Baylink 17:43, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


That's not saying much, if true. I have never encountered a book that comes anywhere close to being as awful as TNotB. Not even in the same order of magnitude of dreadfulness. Ben-w 00:11, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

I have read that TNotB was intended to be horrible, in that it was an inside joke by Heinlein effectively demonstrating what NOT to do when writing a novel. See here. JubalHarshaw 18:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd be more inclined to believe that if (a) he had ever written anything that was any good and (b) if TNotB didn't share so many characteristics with his other novels. Heinlein is the Naked Emperor of science fiction. Ben-w 22:51, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I remember reading this book back when it first came out. It was given to me as a gift and I was an avid reader of Sci-Fi at the time but when I read it I thought to myself "this is horrible". The style of writing was annoying and cartoonish. I had never read any pulp science fiction so that could be why. All I remember about it now is the characters constantly arguing about nonsense. Stay away from this book. Go read "The moon is a harsh mistress." That book is brilliant; possibly Heinlein's best. Dr. Morbius 23:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Snarky bad novel remark

Calling TNotB Heinlein's worst novel is a far cry from Wikipedia's avowed neutrality. I'm going to modify that sentence to be less, ah, acid. Plus I'm rather of Zeb & Hilda. 66.61.41.113 22:45, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The actual number

The article said that the number was 6^(6^6), but acoording to the the book the number is (6^6)^6, which is a lot smaller, being only 29 digits, wheras the larger has over 36 thousand digits. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.181.7.1 (talk • contribs) .

It's 6 to the 6th power and that in turn to the 6th power. or... 10,314,424,798,490,535,546,171,949,056 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.217.179.106 (talk • contribs) .

Both of you are correct, and the current revision of the article reads correctly. Rpresser 22:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barsoom

"Afterwards they discover that they had in fact been to Barsoom, the "colonial Mars" being an illusion imposed on them by the telepathically adept Barsoomians."

Did I totally fail to catch that in the novel, or is someone just making that part up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.120.218 (talk) 02:27, 17 June 2006

I don't remember that part either, but I don't have a copy to check.
—wwoods 17:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I just re-read the entire novel and no-where is this mentioned. -- me.

Look in the end chapter. Lazarus makes this comment:
"... E.R.B.'s universe is no harder to reach than any other and Mars is in its usual orbit. But that does not mean that you will find Jolly Green Giants and gorgeous red princesses dressed only in jewels. Unless invited, you are likely to find a Potemkin Village illusion tailored to your subconscious...."
Rpresser 15:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

It's not clear that Mars at Tau+10 is Barsoom, or that they did something very wrong with the coordinates and lost track of their original timeline (and their close parallels). But the fictional timelines were only accessible by rotation, not translation.Albmont 03:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the connection is spotty. I think it's possible that Heinlein added that implication as an afterthought - so that everywhere the foursome visited (and spent more than a few hours visiting) would be someplace from a book - since he'd already written many chapters about the Mars colony and didn't want to rip them out. --Rpresser 07:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Visit the Heinlein Society, they explain in great detail how this one book is both "How to" and "how NOT to" write a story, and that this was his great "goodbye" Every word in this story has meaning to the person it is intended to, not to the reader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.30.13 (talk) 05:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I looked through my old copy and Jake mentions that the characters are all dead (at least twice) and their adventure a fantasy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.30.13 (talk) 21:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gay Deceiver

I think Gay deserves a full-character treatment, like the one given to Mycroft Holmes or any other sentient computer. Maybe a link to Gay deceiver (Heinlein) might prompt someone to write her biography. Albmont 03:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

No argument here, especially as she appears in all of the World as Myth novels. She has as much right to her own article as Mike does. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 03:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Infamous Bar Bet

Does anyone know if there is any truth to the infamous "bar bet" between Robert A. Heinlein and L. Ron Hubbard? According to rumor, Heinlein agreed to write the worst novel of all time(this one) and Hubbard agreed to start a religion (Scientology) to test how stupid the public was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.249.74 (talk) 04:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

That would make me feel soooooo much better about the existence of this novel. A lot worse about the totality of humanity, though.--128.138.28.119 09:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Usually, when this rumor is heard, it asserts that each of the writers said they would start a religion; Hubbard started Scientology (by writing Dianetics) and Heinlein wrote Stranger in a Strange Land, in which Valentine Michael Smith starts a religion. (And the Church of All Worlds did use Stranger as a starting point.)
But there is no evidence that this bet ever took place, despite thousands of pages asserting it on the web, usually only mentioning Hubbard's side. Rpresser 04:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Critical Response

If somebody wants to add a 'Critical Response' section, here's an interesting reference from David Langford to start out with: http://www.ansible.co.uk/writing/numbeast.html. 71.209.108.43 (talk) 04:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Allusions

should there be a section to all the direct mentions of other authors univereses and allusions to them?

I know they mention Star Trek, H.P. Lovecroft, the Foundation Novels, (and in a shameless plug) Heinlein's future history series and stranger in a strange land).

He also talks about CLark's law, (Something like that you should talk to the most "educated" about how something is impossible and then prove them wrong) and mentions taht it was from Arthur C. Clark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.29.56.119 (talk) 23:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)