Talk:The Matrix character names

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This article has been kept following this VFD debate. Note however that there were a number of users favoring merging this article with The Matrix or elsewhere, and the fact that the debate was closed with an outright "keep" result does not rule out the possibility for a later merge. Sjakkalle (Check!) 30 June 2005 09:03 (UTC)

Yeah, but this article has (I mean, it will have someday) names of all characters in the matrix universe. And the article on 'The Matrix only refers to the first movie. And it is large enough as it is now. There is however another article entitled The Matrix series, although I still think this should be kept as a separate article. VdSV9•♫ 19:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Trinity

I think this could be made more encyclopedic by rewriting it. As it stands, it asserts that certain names carry certain meanings. These should not be assertions, but rather suggestions. It's 100% opinion, and the language should reflect that.

For example, instead of:

Trinity references the reflection of the Holy Trinity with Morpheus as God the Father, Neo as the Messiah, and Trinity as the Holy Spirit. A second reference is to the the Trinity site, where the first atomic bomb exploded on July 16, 1945.

this would be more appropriate:

Trinity could be a reference to the Holy Trinity, with Morpheus as God the Father, Neo as the Messiah, and Trinity as the Holy Spirit.

(I really don't see what the Trinity site has to do with either the character or the movie - unless the writer is saying she's a bombshell? :)

There's probably room for improvement on my idea, so I'll wait to hear other opinions before I start rewriting. Thanks, Tualha 1 July 2005 10:25 (UTC)

  • I agree with Tualha. We'll never likely get confirmation of the symbolism of any or all name unless the Wachowskis finally open up. The entries should be rewritten with the voice suggested by Tualha unless a direct confirmation from a Warner Bros. element (actor, producer, director, book, game, or other official resource) can collaborate it. It's fun to use reason to examine, but nothing should be marked as fact here per se. This also reduces bonehead and tin-foil-hat information from clouding the site. Spencerian 4 July 2005 21:40 (UTC)
  • I also agree that it should be rewritten to show that it is opinion, and not fact. I would also suggest that the characters list is re-ordered and sub-sectioned to make it easier to browse. In the long-term, I would suggest that this article is split up and content placed into the individual characters pages, with new pages created as stubs for characters which do not yet have them. Mike Peel 07:56, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree that it should be rewritten to show that it is opinion, and not fact. However, don't remove the bit about the Trinity site -- remember that names of people who've left the Matrix are essentially hacker handles, chosen by each individual. There's no reason to believe that the character wouldn't've named herself after the first succesful atomic bomb test for the tech reference, but a lot less that she would've chosen the name to highlight relationships that wouldn't occur till years later (regardless of the W Bros possible intent). KickAir8P~ 17:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • "Trinity" may reference the Holy Trinity of Nicene Christianity, but a simplistic allegory equating the triad Morpheus-Trinity-Neo goes too far — Morpheus works as a father figure of sorts, but not a God figure. If parallels to the story of Jesus have to be made, Morpheus is more like John the Baptist ("He will grow stronger and I will grow less.") and Trinity Mary Magdelene, especially if a "reluctant Messiah" story such as Kazantzakis' Last Temptation of Christ is assumed.Janko

[edit] Interpretations that Stretch Things a Bit

I removed recently what seemed to be a coincidental reference of Link's name to his mate Zee in terms of the video game characters Zelda and Link from the popular Nintendo game series. As much as this sounds amusing, this appears original research with no source information. Almost all of the character names appear to have links to real objects or people, established and historically significant mythology, philosophy, fiction or religion, historical events or persons, or cyberculture. The remaining names point more to character defining elements, like Smith (anoynmous and yet everywhere) and Neo (anagrams to his uniqueness). One name is a direct pull from a comic book series that the directors liked (The Sandman) from a name that (to my knowledge) isn't trademarked. I'm all for putting video game references back in, but remember that such a reference should have some (if only a little) back-up from a second source to give it credence. Note that some names like video games are products and could not be used in another work of fiction lest the directors and producers want a lawsuit. I really welcome feedback on this; this page is great fun but it faced deletion when interpretations got too out of hand without some levels of credibility. Spencerian 01:43, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes names in video games are products, but they didn't name the character Zelda now, did they? Link is too much of a commonplace word for anyone to be sued for using it. VdSV9•♫ 19:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

For Captain Ajax there's a reference to the Ajax Web development technique. I really don't think the name has anything at all to do with this, and its mentioning seems rather arbitrary. The Ajax technique wasn't named until after the Matrix trilogy was finished.

[edit] Roles & Links

Some of the entries here have the character names linked directly to an article on their names, but I believe these should be linked to an article on the character. For instance: Sati, Kali and Rama Kandra should have their names linked to their own sections on list of programs and machines... and list of minor characters.... And here, in their entries there should be a link to Sati, Kali and Rama Kandra.

Any comments? I'll get to that when I have time... If I don't forget about it. VdSV9•♫ 19:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this Original research?

It seems to me that much of this is personal opinion, speculation concerning the 'meaning' of these names. It is interesting, but is it appropriate for wikipedia, without specific references? Pgc512 13:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

It's almost, if not, entirely personal opinion. By the very nature of the Wachowski Brothers rarely giving interviews and steadfastly refusing to say what anything in the movies "means," anything that is put here aside from straight facts is speculation, and thus dubious. There is no factual "meaning" of the names because no one involved with the series will say what the meanings are.
-- Last Thylacine 17:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

I've scrubbed everything which isn't a directly citable fact, down to even obvious observations (e.g. "God of X: X is a common theme in the trilogy") under WP:OR. I think I may have left too much stuff there. If you're going to add to this article, I suggest that you keep the Original Research guideline in mind and only add things which you can cite from elsewhere. Sockatume 01:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, there are references at the bottom but it's not clear what they referenced to, if anything. Two of them are offline, and the online one doesn't include interpretations like those added here. If I deleted statements which came from the offline references, please re-add them with proper citations. Sockatume 02:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)