Talk:The Living Word Fellowship

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[edit] Changes made on 11/9/07

Erased the Magical Christmas Caroling Truck link because the event is not run by or overseen by The Living Word Fellowship, nor by any church in the fellowship. Some of the people who volunteer and contribute to this annual Christmas event attend Living Word Fellowship churches, but there are also many participants who do not. Lsrbarton 00:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


Oh come on who are you kidding?


Domain ID:D104293522-LROR
 Domain Name:CHRISTMASCAROLING.ORG
 Created On:01-May-2004 00:36:38 UTC
 Last Updated On:23-Feb-2006 19:10:47 UTC
 Expiration Date:01-May-2011 00:36:38 UTC
 Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
 Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
 Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
 Registrant ID:tuZBiHVllYMdwZZr
 Registrant Name:Steve Seboldt
 Registrant Organization:The Living Word
 Registrant Street1:PO Box 958
 Registrant Street2:
 Registrant Street3:
 Registrant City:North Hollywood
 Registrant State/Province:CA
 Registrant Postal Code:91603
 Registrant Country:US
 Registrant Phone:+1.8189831523
 Registrant Phone Ext.:
 Registrant FAX:
 Registrant FAX Ext.:
 Registrant Email:tlwadmin@thelivingword.org


Not that I really think it matters, I'm just interested in why TLWF would want to distance themselves from The Christmas Truck?
Captain Planet's Green Mullet 03:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Info Being Deleted

User Bebobopityblue deleted a few sections of info which were somewhat critical of TLWF but did not contain misinformation. Please debate rather than deleting, it looks like you're trying to hide something. I undid these deletes, as well as adding a "Kingdom Facilities" section to talk about Shiloh, since Jeremiah thought it superfluous to include in the headline.Captain Planet's Green Mullet 18:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] View of others

Will someone explain how Churches of the Living Word view other Protestant and Catholic denominations? Are other denominations considered "unsaved" or just confused?

The founder was a believer in the one true church idea. He said that all sectarian division is wrong and that "division" or denominations are wrong. To quote: "in the Bible there is only one true church, and it was not divided into denominations.”. However, like most of the one true church people he believes that a church founded on his ideas is the only correct church.
In answer to your question, he (the founder) didn't believe in denominations and considers all christians part of one big church but he also holds that any individual church not run in conformity to his ideas is a church in error. Being "saved" is in two phases. The first one depends on what they call a personal relationship with Christ which is (to them) independent of denomination or church. But the catch is that if you don't believe what the (Living Word) believes, its self-evident proof that you don't have a relationship and are therefore not saved. They also thought that Stevens was the only true leader of the one true church. The second salvation (turning into a christ-like immortal being or Elijah type being) they believe is a slow process of transformation which can only be accomplished in fellowship with an organzation and a leader to support the individual.
So in summary, there is one church. Those who follow the ideas of living word are the correct followers of that one church and everyone else is in error. Being saved doesn't depend on the church (including Living Word) but anyone who is saved will self-evidently understand and accept that Living Word is correct. And that final salvation can only be gained through group activity.
As a disclaimer, I'm not nor ever have been a member of Living Word. I put the above material together by reading their works and combining it with ideas they are with other evangelical christian groups.

The above is correct insofar as it represents the teaching of the founder that there is only one church which, according to scripture, is the "Body of Christ." All who share reconciliation to God through the blood of Jesus Christ are member of Christ's Body, and hence, the church. Denominational structure, however, is not scripturally based and in most instances represents an organizational structure created one or two generations after a moving of God has left of peoplet and that people have lost the life of the Spirit's moving and retain only a form of what God did for the founder or founding group, yesterday. The founder taught that all organizational structure of the believer's fellowship, other than as laid out in the New Testament (specifically, Ephesians 4) is "Babylon" and something which God will ultimately lead his believers to depart from. Thus, there is a clear distinction between the individuals within a denomination, who are brothers and sisters in Christ, and the denomination as a structure, which is something that is generally apostate.

Some of the more immature, but zealous, members of the Living Word Fellowship, in the past ascribed to the founder, John Robert Stevens, an exclusivenesswhich Mr. Stevens himself did not claim. He never claimed to be the leader of the one true church or any similar claim. Rather, he was adament that Christ was the head of the church and divinely appointed ministries were servants of Christ, for the sake of the spiritual life and growth of the Body of Christ. While he recognized that Christ commissioned him as an Apostle of restoration to the church and imparted a ministry in revealing God's Word, and that his diligence to these callings was necessary in order to be accounted as a faithful steward, Mr. Stevens did not foreclose recognizing the amointed ministries of others. Indeed, he taught that the Scriptures will continue to bring an unfolding revelation of Jesus Christ and that greater truth would be revealed from the Scriptures in future generations. Any appearance of exclusiveness was the outgrowth of persecution from, and rejection by, more traditional denominational churches which, in the 50s and on into the early 70s, rejected the founder's teaching that God was restoring the New Testament ministries of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, to the church. Mr. Stevens never taught that those who did not ascribe to the teachings of the Living Word Fellowship were unsaved. Rather, those who were part of fellowships lacking this move of the Spirit did not have the opportunities for rapid spiritual growth and discipleship that were available in the Living Word Fellowship churches.

In this regard, it must be appreciated that that emphasis was not so much on the initial salvation of the believer, as is the case in many evangelical fellowships. Rather, the emphasis was on "going on with Christ," that is, the maturity of the believer after the initial salvation experience. Apostolic teaching from the scriptures was recognized as the means by which maturity could be obtained (Heb. 4:12). Indeed, the centrality of the teaching was the Lordship of Jesus Christ over the individual believer and over the church fellowship. Salvation is the first baby step into this divine life which is promised to the believer by Christ.

The above writer is correct insofar as describing the teachings as holding that the maturity of the believer will only be achieved through participation in the giving and recieving which is part of the expression of the Body of Christ (Eph. 4- the members of the Body of Christ being built up by that which every joint supplies). The revelation from the scriptures also included the principle of oneness, as a key ingrediant to the maturity of the believer (the Gospel of John recounts the prayer of Christ in the waning days of his earthly ministry: And the glory which You have given Me, I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected in oneness, that the world may know that You did send Me, and did love them, even as You did love Me." Thus, Christian maturity was linked by Mr. Stevens, to the believers' participation in the relationships and activties of the respective fellowships.

I am not now a member of a church in the fellowship of the Living Word Fellowship, but was so for 26 years, beginning in 1972.

[edit] View of death

What does the Church of the Living Word believe happens to its members who experience physical death?

I'm not sure they think about it much. The focus is always on creating the new spiritual kingdom where the leaders will be transformed into their immortal bodies as quickly as possible. Its possible that when that happens, the leaders will have the power to selectively raise the dead and then help them finish their transformation. Its an important question historically with them because they never really recovered from Stevens (their leader) himself dying (it was not supposed to happen).

[edit] Fundamentalist

On 22 April 2007 Andycjp removed reference to the theology of The Living Word Fellowship being fundamentalist, indicating that the reference did not conform to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy. My question is: what is POV about calling a fundamentalist theology fundamentalist? It is not a pejorative word is it? Wouldn't that make the entire Fundamentalist Christianity article a POV nightmare? Don Hender, a leader in the Living Word Fellowship, calls it fundamentalist. Living Word Open Study. What exactly is not NPOV about referring to its theology as fundamentalist? Is this an internal squabble among Christians where various sects want to claim the fundamentalist heart-ground as their own? --Bejnar 03:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that site is affiliated with The Living Word Fellowship we are talking about here, which is based in the US and doesn't have any churches in the UK to my knowledge. I would not say TLWF is fundamentalist since they do not believe the creation was literally 7 days, and they believe the earth is more than 5000 years old.Captain Planet's Green Mullet 18:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes - June 16, 2007

I wanted to explain the changes I made to this article on this date. I felt it was important to summarize the general beliefs of The Living Word Fellowship in the introductory paragraph, so I made that the focus of the paragraph.

“This organization is also known as The Church of the Living Word…” – I removed this because it is not true. There is a church in The Living Word Fellowship called Church of the Living Word, but the name refers only to that particular church (located in North Hills, California) and not to the fellowship as a whole (see http://www.thelivingword.org/tlwf/churches.shtml).

“and is sometimes referred to as ‘The Walk.’” – although the fellowship was called “the Walk” at various times, that title is not used very much today, if at all. I think this would be a valid topic to discuss later in the article, but it is an historical point and should not appear in the opening paragraph. Just as an aside, my understanding is that John Robert Stevens called it “The Walk” at a time when there was no official title for the group of churches. Once the name “The Living Word Fellowship” had been established, the name “the Walk” went out of circulation.

“The organization runs a large facility in Iowa called Shiloh.” – this is a true statement, but since the introductory paragraph should be a summary of the most salient general points, I feel that this should be discussed later in the article. Jeremiah 01:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes - August 9, 2007

I deleted the reference to “the Walk” because it was never the title of The Living Word Fellowship. Although it's true that for a short time the Fellowship was unofficially known as "the Walk" in certain circles, the term hasn't been in use since the 1970s. John Robert Stevens had this to say about the subject, from his message "Do You Know the Lord?" (4/8/82):

We come to be called "the Walk." That’s sacrilege. We’re not the Walk. It was taken from the fact that people wanted a walk with God. It was trying to characterize a movement. This is not a movement. This is a search to know the Lord.

I believe that he used the term “sacrilege” because to specifically call one group of churches “the Walk” would be to exclude others from also having a relationship with God. The term comes from the phrase “a walk with God,” a Scriptural term (from Genesis 5:24, 6:9, as well as many references in Galatians, Ephesians and other books of the Bible) that John Robert Stevens sometimes used to describe a daily relationship with the Lord. It was always a foundational belief of John Robert Stevens that God was available to everyone, not just to a few. He was adamant that, as it says in the Scriptures, all would know the Lord, from the least to the greatest (Jeremiah 31:34, Hebrews 8:11). Stevens knew that there could never be one “Walk,” and that the Lord leads all who seek Him. Jeremiah 21:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)