Talk:The Keeper of Traken

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[edit] The Time on the Master's Tardis

I have a question for khaosworks, 23skidoo, Josiah Rowe and any other of the wikipedians who take such good care of these Dr Who pages. Note #7 about the time on the clock on the Master's Tardis brings up a couple of questions.

1. Is this sourced to any of the production team who worked on this story? I am not saying that it isn't possible that this was done on purpose, but
2. This is not a digital clock - how do we know that the time isn't 11:55 or 11:54 etc. and how do we know it isn't a.m. rather than p.m.?
3. Did the clock have the same time on it when last we saw it at the end of The Deadly Assassin? I know that it is a totally different clock from the one filmed in that episode but I am just curious.

The Keeper Of Traken was actually the first full story of the show that I remember seeing back in 1982 so it has a special place in my affections. I have studied and read numerous books and articles about Dr Who over the years, although not as much as some of you I am sure, and I hadn't encountered this observation before. If it is sourced material I would like to know where it came from so that I might be able to add the book or magazine interview to my collection. Also, I am not against fan speculation. That is one of the joys of being a Dr Who fan as there is so much to speculate about. But, if this is a fandom note I feel that it should be described as such. Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can help with this.User:MarnetteD | Talk 22:50, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

When I originally added the note, I put the word "supposedly" because I couldn't find a source showing production team intent. I've reworded the note to indicate that it's a fan interpretation - although I'll continue to look for a source for intent because I'm pretty sure it was done on purpose. —Whouk (talk) 15:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

An update to the above discussion. I have just watched the new DVD release of this story. During the commentary of ep 4 Johnny Byrne states that the scene in question is a tribute to Tom's leaving the show. I still have a couple of reservations about this.

1. Byrne is stating this 20 some odd years after the show was made. Neither Matt W., Anthony A. or Sarah S. act like they had ever heard this before. Most importantly it is stated in an earlier section of the commentary, and in the making of documentary (this item is not mentioned in this either), that Mr Byrne delivered his script for this story and then went to Greece. He was not involved in the production in any form and he compliments Chris Bidmead for doing such a good job with his ideas. Thus, he must have heard this story in the years after ep 4 aired. Where? At a convention? Had this already become a piece of fancruft when he first encountered it?
2. A close look at the last 8 minutes reveals the following - interesting - items about the scenes where you can see the time on the clock. The first time that you can see it is over the Doctors left shoulder. The time on it reads 11:27 or 28. A few moments later as the Master plays with the Doctor's hair and is about to bond with his body the clock reads 11:35. When the Master enters this second TARDIS to escape the flames that are consuming his "Melkur" one it reads 11:37. The next time we see it is the only time that it reads 11:56 (and this answers a couple of my points in my first note from 2006 above) and that is when Tremas' hand adheres to it so that the Master can bond with him. In the next moment (after a camera angle shift), when the new Master opens the door of this TARDIS to leave it has backed up a couple of minutes and reads 11:54.

Now I know that this is a lot of words over such a small point. I am posting it to state that if another editor wants to put it back in you can cite Byrne's commentary and I won't remove it. I just don't feel comfortable reentering it as the evidence of the varying times on the clock still makes it feel fancrufty to me. If anyone can cite a source from someone who actually worked on the production staff during the taping of the scenes in question that would help with my reservations. Thanks for your time in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 01:05, 30 June 2007 (UTC)