Talk:The Human League

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[edit] Unofficial websites used as "sources" (again)

If anybody has the time, can they please proof the main article and cull all "sources" that are referenced from fan websites. Even sources that are so-called "officially recognised" are not valid, and only tend to be gushing fansites anyway. 79.66.120.93 (talk) 00:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


The websites used as references have been checked by successive copyeditors and admins and have passed WP:RS. There is no blanket ban on ‘fansites’ as sources on wikipedia per WP:RS. SPS's should be assessed on their merits and content, but better sources should be used where available per WP:RS. Which is where the problems start, The Human League have had a cool media profile since their height in the 1980s therefore media sources are lacking. Pop groups by their very nature do not have academic quality tomes written about them. This is compounded by Philip Oakey's refusal to let the management produce an official website. The media now deal almost exclusively with the sites listed below for information (and ironically use Wikipedia). Those sites are almost certainly 'gushing' that is because their main purpose is to promote the band, and in that way no different to a commercial website, it doesnt follow that they are untruthful or inaccurate, and the band manager would certainly not permit that for legal reasons.

Five Unofficial websites are used as sources; the webmasters all have contact with the band in varying degrees and are professional people not just mad fans. One of them actually works for the band. In detail:

  • www.blindyouth.co.uk - Producer Sean Turner's very detailed historical website about the 'Mk 1' (1977-1980) Human League, personally endorsed by both Martyn Ware and Philip Oakey, the only information resource about The Future and Mk1 THL online.
  • EY / League-online.com- contains an officially recognised biography of The Human League written by Robert Windle. His website and music label EY are no longer associated with The Human League, but his League biography is still online and officially recognised in that it is used by the band management as a background media release; and it was mirrored until recently on the band’s private media enquiries website www.thehumanleague.me.uk (currently offline)
  • www.susanne-sulley.net – Vocalist S.Sulley centric, but contains a [20000 word biography] of Sulley’s involvement with the band since school. Officially recognised it was used by the band on the 2007 Tour programme. I own this website and per WP:COI I do not self-source in my edits. (If it’s used as a source then someone else has added it) nor am I formally employed by the band. Sulley’s bio contains about 6 months worth of research, if anything was wrong she'd either Email me to correct it or have her manager do it.
  • www.black_hit_of_space.dk - a very carefully researched statistics and information resource by Niels Kolling. Again, quoted by the band on their publicity material and tour programmes. The single biggest collection of 'hard factual' information about the band online. 100 x more detailed than sites like Discogs.It is now oficially recognised by the band and management and is being used as the 'de facto' official Human League website by the promoters of the band's 2008 tour of the USA[1]
  • www.human-league.dk – Run by the band's graphic designer, site mainly contains artwork he has done for the bands album covers and tour programs but information about future events/intentions have come directly from the band or management themselves and this is stated.

In the same way as the commercial media are not always 100% correct, I'm sure that there could be errors in the above websites. Therefore if someone wishes to challenge a fact in the article because they have found conflicting information elsewhere then raise it in Talk:The Human League with reasons/justification/Rationale so consensus can be reached. What will not be acceptable is blanket deletions of sourced information by a single individual without consensus. andi064 T . C 20:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review

As a measure of transparency I have put the article up for peer review by established Wikipedians (with no edits to the article), with GA nom to follow on once ‘to do list’ is completed. With a 14 day timescale dependant on the uptake of reviewers comments on WP:PR. The article will take PR from current revision. To add PR comments please go to Wikipedia:Peer review/The Human League/archive1

andi064 T . C 23:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

  • I'd have to say that I'd like to see a bit more history about the members. I'd like to know where they came from and what their past acomplishments are etc... Also, it seems like a small amount of sources for all the information already there. Are there any more, good sources out there for this band? Undeath (talk) 00:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Noted & thanks (I've copied this onto The Peer Review page ) andi064 T . C 13:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Romantic References (Re-opened)

Subject reopened from Talk:The Human League/Archive 2

I think there shouldn't be any problems with putting the New romantic also as one of the categories (at the end). Human League were never TRULY (strictly) New romantic, but to some degree like-it-or-not the WERE (New romantic), in the Dare-Mirror_Man-Fascination period (1981-1983). Their biggest hit 'Don't You Want Me' is pretty-much New romantic (both in musical style and in manner of performing it), and I think most of the people that were (and/or are still) really into new romantic, accepted that song plus a few more HL songs as their favorite NEW ROMANTIC songs. That's simply undeniable. And I strongly suggest to put the word 'truly' when saying 'never were (truly) New romantic', meaning if not 'truly', to some degree however they were (New romantic too, and not only 'New wave').208.72.122.7 (talk) 11:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for reading the old debate and replying. That THL were associated with the genre in 1981 is undeniable, the same for a lot of chart bands of the time. Commercial bandwagons are easily jumped on. The problems arise when people try to classify them as a 'New Romantic Band' per-se, which it is accepted they never were. The reason the Wikipedia ref to New Romantic was removed is because the media will try and label them New Romantic after researching the band on Wiki and this has caused problems in the past. The biggest error is assuming Oakey’s dress sense 1979-1982 was NR, which it wasn’t. What is needed is a better researched and written New Romantic article which makes the distinction between Blitz bands, Commercial New Romantic bands and those bands just associated with the genre because of their fashion and or musical style. I don’t claim to be a NR expert so it is best left to someone who knows their subject. If you really wish to place The Human League in the New Romantic article that is fine as long as the distinction is made for historical accuracy's sake. To NR purists it's a bit like equating The Beatles with The Monkees it's something that really annoys them. From a THL perspective Catherall and Sulley go mad if it is suggested they were ever NRs. Regards andi064 T . C 11:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Does the Human League dislike the New Romantics? Duran Duran in Particular? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.87.6.102 (talk) 10:06, 24 May 2008 (UTC)