Talk:The Glass Bead Game

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Contents 1 Mathematics, Music, Symbols 2 Mornington Crecent 3 Attempts to create a real-life Glass Bead Game 4 translations? 5 Magister Ludi 6 Tightening up the plot 7 Hesse's Glass Bead Game

[edit] Mathematics, Music, Symbols

From Hesse:

"Throughout its history the Game was closely allied with music, and usually proceeded according to musical or mathematical rules. One theme, two themes, or three themes were elaborated, varied and underwent a development quite similar to that of the theme in a Bach fugue...."

"... a language of symbols... so that it became possible to... reduce mathematics and music to a common denominator, as it were."

A combination of mathematics, music, and symbols may be found in Timothy A. Smith's analysis of a Bach fugue-- available as a Shockwave movie or as an essay. Related symbols may be found at the Kaleidoscope Puzzle.

These links seem closely enough related to the Bead Game to be incorporated in the article, so I have added them. Cullinane 07:44, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mornington Crecent

What's Mornington Crescent got to do with The Glass Bead Game? Apart from that it's got "game" in the title?

Was the Glass Bead Game a 'game' in the usual sense? Wasn't it more of 'Meta' Art-Form which was performed?

Perhaps the confusion comes from the German 'Spiel', which can mean play a game or to play an instrument. Given that music pours out of the pages of the Novel, I'd say it was more the latter.

Which makes Mornington Crescent feel even more out of place.

Elchoco 20:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I've just checked the Mornington Crescent Wiki entry and there's even a reference to Glass Bead Game from there! I guess the only possible connection is that the rules to both are unknown. If we're linking to things that have arcane rules then we might as well add "selection critieria for the new years honours list" and "airline ticket pricing". Elchoco 21:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible that 'The Glass Bead Game' is a reference to the Hindu myth of Indra's Net?

 -- ChrisL  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.124.68.115 (talk) 02:26, August 23, 2007 (UTC) 

[edit] Attempts to create a real-life Glass Bead Game

I feel that this should be perhaps moved to its own page. This article should focus only on the book and literary criticism of it.

Loyola 11:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] translations?

It would be nice to have a comparison of available translations. 75.62.7.22 03:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree that a comparison of translations would be really helpful. What about a comparison of various editions in general? I have not found a review online that does this. Joevans3 17:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magister Ludi

The article mentions, "At any given time, the member of the order deemed the best Game player is honored with the title Magister Ludi." Can someone provide a quote from the book supporting this? I know Knecht was an important player, but obviously the position seems like one which necessitates a person committed not only to the Game but also to duties related to preservation of The Order. Do they simply give away the title to anyone who is savant? --1000Faces (talk) 04:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That's not quite right - the position of Magister isn't a sort of honorarium. Rather, it's a highly official position that amounts to a full time job for Knecht, where he's essentially responsible for giving seminars on the game, educating elite students, etc. Thus, there is only one Magister Ludi.

Consider this quote from the general introduction (p. 42 of my edition) - it applies to the development of the glass bead game in general, but also in this case to Castilia:

"The game had been played freely by individuals... before it acquired the status of a public institution. [...] In each country a Game Commission and a supreme head of the Game, bearing the title of Ludi Magister, were established. Official matches, played under the personal direction of the Magister, were exalted into cultural festivals. [...] Among the duties of the Magister, in addition to conducting the public Games, was supervision of the players and the schools of the Game. Above all, however, the Magister had to keep strict watch over the futher elaboration of the game."

This is in line with the idea that castilian culture is not at all individualistic.

(Sorry if I have botched the use of this talk page somehow. I'm new and not quite sure how it works yet.)

Ruff ilb (talk) 05:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tightening up the plot

In an attempt to tighten up the plot, as was needed, I needed to trim down the article. All of the important points removed have been logged below. Feel free to excavate them from this boneyard and place them into the article if needed, preferably in new sections and not back into bloating the plot. --1000Faces (talk) 05:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

BONEYARD

towards the 20th century, terming it the Age of the Feuilleton, an intellectually superficial and decadent period when middlebrow journalism replaced serious reading and reflection.

a period which "began approximately with the so-called First World War" and during which "most men of mind did not stand up under the pressures of that violent age", instead using their intellects in service of the rulers of the period.

Polarities lie at the heart of the work, as is commonly the case in Hesse's novels. Two relationships are of particular interest, that of Knecht with a friend and mentor who he meets on a diplomatic mission to the Catholic monastery of Mariafels, the learned monk Father Jacobus, and with his best friend at the boarding school run by the order, Plinio Designori, the scion of a rich family. At the end of their school days, Knecht, representing asceticism and the Life of the Mind, joins the order, while Designori returns to the world. He embodies a failed reconciliation between mind and world.

In his introduction to Hesse's novel Demian (1919), Thomas Mann likened his relation with Hesse to that of Knecht and Jacobus, adding that their knowledge of each other was not possible without much ceremony. Mann extrapolates on Hesse's observance of Oriental customs in the novel. The Glass Bead Game manifests Hesse's enduring dream of combining East with West. For example, the discipline of the imaginary monastic community includes breathing and meditation techniques of clear Oriental inspiration.

Hesse also makes an existentialist point: faced with a dilemma, Knecht opts for the world and not the ivory tower. It seems, tragically, that living in Castalia made Knecht unfit for life in the world.

[edit] Hesse's Glass Bead Game

I added NOR tag to this section. The last paragraph in particular seems OR. Dlabtot (talk) 22:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I removed a line in the last para:

"Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach, even though it does not mention Hesse's novel, is an intellectual exercise very much in the spirit of the Game."

1) Excepting the first para, and the long quote, the section seems very much OR. (The 211 word quote is overlong, from a site that is explicitly copyrighted: http://www.sfhreview.com/workingpapers/?p=1 )

2) Looking through the index, Hofstader mentions scores of people from Shakespeare to Bertrand Russell with no mention of Hesse or The Glass Bead Game.

3) The Glass Bead Game is distinctly original fiction, with spiritual overtones, while GEB is illustrated, largely non-fiction, mass market, drawing significantly on the work of others.

4) Goggle hits on "godel escher bach" and "glass bead game" number 500: among them many were reading lists, not implying any special commonality of subject.

5) The phrase "intellectual exercise very much in the spirit" is peacock language. WP:PEACOCK

Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 07:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)