Talk:The Church

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[edit] Band history article

A translation of the huge German article into English is on it's way, so be patient for the most exhaustive history about the band you've ever read. :-)

timetunnel 20:48, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Jawoll, höhö
Fandorin 20:48, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

It's good to see this page getting so much development of late. I was the one that expanded this article from a stub about a year ago, but I haven't taken the time to do much more since then. The history section certainly adds a lot of background to the band's article, but I'm pretty concerned about its length. Encyclopedic articles on here should be informative, but concise. With no offense meant at all - as there's much in the way of valuable information in there - it's a bit over the top and will kind of overwhelm and/or bore casual fans and users. I think we should try and cut it back some, just to make it a more professional and compendious. I've put in a few small edits and will do some more over time, but as the idea behind this site is one of a collective effort, anyone else of course feel free to pitch in.

Xerius 14:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Your rewording of the parts of the history is well done. It shortens the sentences and is more fluent to read. I have done the translation of the German article together with some other guys, because fans demanded an English version. But I won't spend much more time in polishing that article now, I'd rather maintain the German version. This one here has to be maintained by others, like you, Xerius. I will only drop by from time to time to check that no-one passes by and wrecks the article (like these internet trolls do).
I think you're right that casual readers might be annoyed by the length. But on the other hand the interested reader will be delighted. Now, who wins? I'd go for the one who really wants information. But there's not only lots of information there but it shows the development of a band over a long period of time. Compare it with the article about the Beatles, for example, which is even longer.
timetunnel 19:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Clearly much of the material in the history is valuable to readers, so I'm trying to be selective about what to snip. The last edit actually only resulted in a reduction of one kilobyte (and there was at least one paragraph that turned out longer than previously!). One suggestion made on Wikipedia's page on article size was to divide some of the content into separate pages. The sort of ideal is somewhere around 32kb (we're currently looking at 46kb and that Beatles page is a whopping 55kb), but that isn't necessarily ironbound. I suppose one option, if it came down to it, would be to create separate pages for each/some of the albums and shuffle some information there. That's more of a chore than I really want to deal with at this time though, and perhaps won't even be necessary in the long run.

I'm wondering if some of the 'Style' section is a little superfluous. That may be one area that could be trimmed more. Also, perhaps solo and side project details in the history would be better placed on each respective member's page. Anyhow, I've really only just started here and I'm sure more work may well be needed once I finish, so any suggestions are welcome.

Xerius 04:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there's definitely some content that overlaps between style and history chapter. Could be reduced. But I think the idea of a separate style chapter is still a good one. If it wouldn't be there people had to rummage the history to get some clues about the band's style.
timetunnel 08:18, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I've just put in the edits for a couple more sections. Another one kilobyte drop. Really, there wasn't a big change in terms of conciseness here, but I drastically reorganized the Starfish section. I tried to keep the most pertinent information, but at the same time reorder and rephrase it. It's a time-consuming process, though it'll (hopefully) pay off eventually.

Xerius 16:15, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Early days

A factual question; I don't think Steve and Peter played in several glam bands in Sydney. I'm pretty sure it was Canberra. For example, the article in Shadow Cabinet about Baby Grande says they were a Canberra group. Worth checking, I think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.255.108.148 (talk • contribs) 11:39 AM, 23 December 2005

[edit] Disambiguation

Someone redirected this page to a disambiguation page without fixing the link on the disambiguation page itself. I've fixed it now; looks like the new page is The Church (band). Pjmorse 21:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

A lot of this article reads as either POV or unsubstansiated claims. For example, it is claimed that the making of Priest=Aura took place under the influence of drugs, particularly opium. How on earth can this be proven (and how does the author know?)? Also, it is claimed that this album met with critical disdain. Yet several of the songs (particularly Ripple and Feel) enjoyed considerable airplay on many U.S. Alternative stations (89X in Detroit is a good example) following the album's release. I'm not trying to cast stones at anybody, but a LOT of this article seems very heavy on POV and very short on cited facts. westmt01 3 Aug 2006

The opium reference has come up here and there in interviews with individual members. I particularly recall Peter Koppes making reference to it around Hologram of Baal. The article reads "allegedly," which means it isn't 100% confirmed - this would likely require asking the band directly, I imagine. Regarding Priest=Aura's success, although not noted in the article, it did quite well on college radio and modern rock charts. That's not the same thing as critical acclaim however and Rolling Stone panned it with a two-star review. The band members have gone on record numerous times saying it was basically ignored commercially and sales were well below that for Gold Afternoon Fix and Starfish.
As for the article being "very heavy" on POV and "very short" on cited facts, if that's the case, someone should start making a list of precise instances of POV that need addressing. Anything that's disputed should be brought up here on the discussion page. I don't know where all the information here originally was pieced together from. I went in and made this thing more encyclopedic a long time ago, but it still needs a lot of work. As far as I'm concerned, that's up to others as I simply don't have the time to devote to this anymore.
Xerius 0:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sound sample

Hi, I have uploaded a sample of the Church's "Under the Milky Way". Not sure how it would be best worked into this article but please include it: Image:The Church - under the milky way.ogg. The {{Listen}} template may be of use. cheers. pfctdayelise 05:16, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Length of article

I think the article is too long (like The Masters Apprentices!) and much of the info. should be placed in the articles on individual albums. Keep it concise and encyclopedic in the main article. --Design 05:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I just fixed the disambiguation page link, so hopefully folks who get redirected there will find this. Pjmorse 21:47, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

  • That's cool, but you probably should have moved the page instead of removing the text and pasting it here... that destroys the edit history of this page (although, yes, it is archived on the "The Church" redirect page, but....). Not a big deal, though, since this article doesn't seem to controversial. Folkor 07:25, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Indeed, that would've been nice, but I wasn't the one who did the moving--I just found the old page redirecting to the disambiguation page, which linked to the old page, which... you get the picture. Pjmorse 15:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh, alright. Sorry for the accusation. Folkor 08:23, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Album pages

If anyone has time or the inclination, it would be nice to have individual album pages for these releases, with the cover, track listing, and other information. Most bands of the Church's stature seem to have that. We could include some of the commentary that is now in the history section which would make that a bit more concise, especially for newbies. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums has lots of suggestions about how to approach it. Rigadoun 18:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I've started putting together album pages and have linked the first few to the main page. Right now they're somewhat barebones, but pictures and the like can be added later. Once they're all created, we should probably go ahead and siphon off the content in the "Style" section of the main page - it's pretty superfluous. Xerius 16:15, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old talk page

Anyone know how to move the talk page at Talk:The_Church here without losing the comments here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pjmorse (talk • contribs) 21:15, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Canberra or Sydney "origin"

Fact box and intro text conflict. Which is right?Piperdown 13:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Songs on Music Soundtrack

The song "Life Speeds Up" was on the movie soundtrack "Storm Riders"(1982), should this be noted anywhere in the article? It was actually this soundtrack that I first heard The Church and began buying their albums. Mrhyak 19:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)