Talk:The Chronicles of Amber

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I removed the mention that "Mercedes Lackey" wrote a song inspired by Amber because I googled it and could not find any info and I don't think it is important enough to mention it in the first short paragraph even so.JohnRussell 04:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC) If someone knows anything about it and can cite it please add it back in later in the article with a link. JohnRussell 04:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I recall that Zelazny started the series as an experiment--that is, he decided, "I'll have a character wake up with amnesia and go from there," and then made up the story as he went along. Does anyone know if that's true? And if so, can you find a source, and does it warrant mentioning in the article? Fumblebruschi 20:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe this to be the correct order for the short stories. [1] JohnRussell 20:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

What about Roger Zelazny's wonderful audio recordings of him reading the books with sound effects, where would be a good place for that? JohnRussell 22:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I just added info about the comic adaptations made by Terry Bisson. JohnRussell 18:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Great expansion of the article, Indy! It may need a bit of editing for NPOV in a couple of places, and certainly needs some wikification (eg, more links), but a vast improvement over the stubby article that was there. Since I've some time, I think I'll go put in a few hyperlinks right now. -- Logotu 18:29, 2004 Apr 3 (UTC) (PS: Most people don't sign actual articles, though as far as I know there is no rules against it)

Did Zelanzy say that his work was inspired by Phillip Farmer's World of Tiers series? The first novel in that series is only five years before. ChrisG 23:28, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Order & Chaos

When I was reading the Amber series, I always had the impression that the Courts of Chaos were really more orderly than Amber; the interactions of the families seem to be regulated by many customs etc while the Amberites are just a big bunch of anarchists. I am not sure this was a false impression on my part - it's been a while. -- Nils 12:56, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think you are correct. - Logotu 15:37, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
There is a scene in the last book of the Corwin cycle where this is explicitly stated (by a talking jackal, of all things.)


I always took this as one of the great oxymorons in Zelazny's works. The courts are in a chaotic place, as far as geography, astrogation, and time flow are concerned, but the inhabitants are extremely orderly, as opposed to Amber where the geography, time flow, and astrogation are orderly yet it is inhabited with many chaotic personas.

[edit] A role-playing book

Back in the late 1980s, some other (non-Zelazny) author created a book based in the world of Amber where a non-Amberite needs to find a way of shifting through shadow (they have to sell their soul to do so, as I recall). It was one of those books that was a self-contained role-playing came, using a combination of choose-you-own-adventure style and using dice to go through combat in the book.

I think the book was named "The long black road" or "The long road". I may even have it somewhere at my dad's house. Anyway, if anyone knows anything more about this book, it would be worth listing. And, no, IMHO, it wasn't as god as the Zelazny books. Samboy 05:11, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I added the Choose Your Own Adventure books by Neil Randall based on information listed on amazon.com. Jwolfe 07:27, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for hunting those down! Samboy 06:23, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Uthark, Nightside of the Runes

Why is a non-Amber work mentioned? If there's a connection, I think it should be explained. —JerryFriedman 00:19, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I concur - what is its relevance to the Amber series? Lokicarbis 07:20, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] World of Tiers/Amber

It's been a very long time since I read either, but I recall there were pretty explicit "hat tips" in Amber to World of Tiers, such as the character Dworkin Barimen and the Horn of Shamimbarimen (amazing what the mind retains). adamrice 04:59, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nature of Chaos

The article contradicts what memory I have of the series as it pertains to the Logrus and its abilities.

In the Corwin series, the inhabitants of Chaos found it much more difficult to move through Shadow than those of Order, and when they could move through it, they were unable to bring others along with them--hence the need for the Black Road. Otherwise they could have moved armies across at any time they liked, yet obviously they never did, since every Amberite short of Oberon and Dworkin was surprised at the mere existence of something on the other side of Shadow.

In the Merlin series, it was established that the Logrus was the Chaos equivalent of the Pattern, and those who had 'negotiated' it were able to pull things to themselves through the worlds of Shadow, as Merlin does numerous times. "Walking Shadow" was apparently possible for anyone born of Chaos, without the prerequisite of negotiating the Logrus.

Am I wrong in this bit of memory? If so, feel free to edit or erase this post.

As a further irony, the Logrus was made of ever-shifting right angles and straight lines, whereas the Pattern was a series of whorls and arcs, lacking any straight lines whatsoever. Usually Chaos is represented or viewed as non-linear, whereas things linear are viewed as being Orderly. This inversion is as amusing to me as the Chaos family being peaceful and the Order (Amber) family being a bunch of backstabbing plotters.

I remember the Chaos family being a bunch of devious backstabbers, always pollitically plotting, much worse than those of Amber. Merlin ended up succeeding to the throne because all his prececessors were murdered. --ssd 01:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Templates, anyone?

I think templates such as {{Amber}} and {{AmberCharacters}} would be nice for navigation.

You can see {{Ender}} at Ender's Game series and {{EnderCharacters}} at Ender Wiggin.

I think as it sits now, a template for the books might be nice...though there are "preceeded by / followed by" boxes at the bottom of each of the articles on the books already. For the characters, I only found articles on Merlin of Amber and Corwin of Amber so for now I'd hold off until (if?) someone writes articles on the other denizens of the Amber universe. I'll see if I can fiddle around with an amber template though and get one that looks nice. --Syrthiss 13:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I ended up adding {{AmberBooks}}. KJ 17:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Ah, very nice :) --Syrthiss 18:16, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Logrus section

I cleaned it up a bit, however I am unclear about a few details, mainly how many copies of the Logri there are throughout shadowland. Sethie 23:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't remember anything from the main series books mentioning echoes of the Logrus in shadow. The swamp / maze that Merlin hid Ghostwheel in seemed to me to have Logrus-like physical qualities, but for actual negotiable Logrii the original in the Courts of Chaos might be the only one. --Syrthiss 13:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
I think "fixed logrus" analog to the "broken pattern" was just a product of the role playing game and fan fiction. Nothing like that ever appeared in any of Zelazny's works. --Darth Borehd 03:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I've done an edit on this section having just re-read the second Amber series. There are no echoes of the Logrus mentioned in the books so I've removed that comment, as well as editted for readability. --Markeer 21:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks- it's been years!Sethie 05:19, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Chronicles of Amber ROCKS

[edit] Lost Unabridged Found?

I happened to discover an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos released by a company known as Audio USA. No website is available nor can I seem to Google them. But I have the unabridged none the less. The Audio Copyright is listed as 2002. Perhaps we can get this added into the audiobooks section, and also see if we can hunt down the other unabridged books.Dragonranger 14:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Who reads it? --Darth Borehd 03:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I as well have "stumbled" upon an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos--though it was through a downloadable torrent source, rather than purchased (I'd buy it if I could find it... but kinda hard to find...). It's read by Roger Zelazny. --EndrilRM 22:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Video Game?

Wasn't there also a video game made from Nine Princes in Amber? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darth Borehd (talk • contribs) 03:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Ha! Yes there was. The copy I had was for the commodore 64 on 5-1/4" floppies. Not sure if it was available on other platforms or not though. If I remember correctly, it was mostly text based (like Zork), but there were some simple sprite-like graphics involved for some parts. (essaying the pattern was similiar to one of those sliding-peice puzzles). Cadmunky 00:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

   edit: found it  Cadmunky 00:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shadow existed before the Pattern

Template:Spoiler

Wasn't this "contradication" being taken care of when we learned (in Chaos and Amber) there WAS a Pattern ("beta" version) before begin of Dawn of Amber ? -- Hkmaly 15:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I have not read those books, but if you believe so then "Be Bold" Wikipedia:Be_bold_in_updating_pages and change it. I would be careful how you change it though if it is a plot spoiler. If so, please read up on Wikipedia:Spoiler warning JohnRussell 04:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem is that it's more about Amber fans that about the books. While I am Amber fan, I don't belong to any of groups who criticized Betancourt (I learned about it only after books were translated to czech) and I don't know what it was really about. Also, I prefer not to edit english wikipedia because of state of my english. But ok, I try it ... -- Hkmaly 13:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nine Princes Picture

I've added the picture back in and put up a fair use rational; however, if someone could get the omnibus volume and justify it, it would probably be better. Adam McCormick 01:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cycle Descriptions

There has been a dispute as to which version of the two cycle descriptions should be used, before we get into an edit war about it, I'd like to get wider input. The two versions are here and here and the disputed sections are "The Corwin Cycle" and "The Merlin Cycle." I'm hoping we can debate this and come to a consensus. Adam McCormick (talk) 03:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, here are my main issues with the cycle descriptions, which is why I thought a cleanup was in order: 1) too many spoilers, 2) too much superfluous detail, 3) awkward writing. On point 1: The descriptions give away such major plot twists as that Brand is the traitor, that Dworkin helps Corwin escape, that Luke is Brand's son, and even that Julia faked her own death (!). Anyone who hasn't already read the series and who comes to this entry in order to get a basic idea of what the books are about is going to have every surprise totally ruined in two short paragraphs. At the very least these descriptions should require a spoiler warning, but I think it's silly to even have so many spoilers here. On point 2: The cycle descriptions contain way too many specific details, such as the long-winded discussion regarding the circumstances of Corwin's imprisonment and escape. On point 3: The writing is just plain bad, with overlong sentences full of clumsy parenthetical asides. Random is mentioned twice, but it's never explained who he is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.145.84 (talk) 20:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Please, have a look at WP:SPOILER, spoiling the book is not a valid reason to remove content. I agree that the sections need rewriting, but the version that you made removed more than it added. I think that the sections should be expanded, broken out by book, with "main article" headers to the articles about the books. I'm not arguing that we don't need a rewrite, but it needs to be a rewrite not a hack and slash. I'll propose my own version as soon as I can. Adam McCormick (talk) 20:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
All right. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I still don't think that a one-paragraph general overview of a series is an appropriate place to reveal key surprises. That's what the entries for the individual volumes with their fair-warning "Plot Summary" headings are for. Even giving away too much detail here about the ending of Nine Princes in Amber (that Corwin is defeated, blinded, grows new eyes, and escapes) seems to me unfair to the potential reader. I think my version strikes a good balance between conveying the broad outlines of the plot without spoiling the reading experience or getting lost in minutiae (I would hardly call my version a "hack and slash"), but I'm happy to consider alternatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.145.84 (talk) 20:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I've had a go at a rewrite. A bit more extensive than the original, but about more than the first book this time. Remember that it's supposed to be a summary of the series, not a catchy preview but a summary. It doesn't need a disclaimer and theres nothing against having WP:SPOILER content. Adam McCormick (talk) 19:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)