Talk:The Book of the Short Sun
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[edit] Spoiler tag
Since it is possible to synopsize a book without spoiling it, it is not redundant to offer a spoiler tag in a synopsis section. I thought from the edit summary that the tag-removing edit was "official" in some sense, or indeed a simple tidying up of a redundant bracket somewhere, but now that I know it was one of thousands of similar wholesale edits I'm reasserting its importance. I'd also argue that people familiar with the books are the ones best suited to making those sorts of determinations, and that the WP:SPOILER guideline clearly lacks consensus at this time. --Jere7my 07:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, but Wikipedia is not a repository for plot summaries. Multiple synopses are unnecessary for encyclopedic coverage. These sorts of warnings detract from the professional quality of the encyclopedia, and shouldn't be used unless there is a strong reason for a user to not expect spoilers. People understand that reading a plot synopsis might spoil the material, even if its possible to write a synopsis that doesn't. --Eyrian 07:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- This debate is not going to be settled here. Please leave the spoiler tags be until WP:SPOILER actually achieves consensus. --Jere7my 07:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- I say remove them until the debate reaches consensus. Again, it's pretty obvious to me, speaking only in this single case, that putting a spoiler warning in a synopsis section is pretty unnecessary. --Eyrian 07:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Doesn't it make more sense to return the article to the state it was in before the tag-purging began? At the end of the day, I may agree with the removal or relocation of the spoiler tag here, but since the nub of the debate is whether the tag purge was a good idea I'd just as soon return the article to its pre-debate state until consensus on a policy is reached. --Jere7my 07:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Also, since this "book" actually consists of three separate novels, it may not be clear what the synopsis section covers; I think a spoiler tag is more appropriate here than in a single novel's SYNOPSIS section. --Jere7my 07:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- I've now divided the section up, so that readers needn't worry about spoiling further than they'd like. Still, the spoiler tag in this instance remains unnecessary. --Eyrian 07:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- I think that's sensible. Obviously the good of the article can be considered irrespective of debate elsewhere. Asking for us to hold off editing because a decision hasn't been made on some page somewhere else isn't really how we do things on Wikipedia. --Tony Sidaway 10:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Have either of you read these books? If not, I submit that you do not have the necessary knowledge to make a decision about spoiler tags. I further submit that Tony Sidaway, at least, has an anti-spoiler tag agenda that goes beyond what is good for any particular article. Finally "how we do things on Wikipedia" is dismissive. Obviously, it's how some of "us" do things on Wikipedia. --Jere7my 16:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- No, I kicked out after Citadel. But how is knowing the plot relevant here? It is a matter of whether someone expects the plot to be spoiled from a synopsis/plot summary section, which is generally a universal criterion. --Eyrian 23:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- You should really read Long Sun and Short Sun; they're both excellent. Anyway, as I said above, I might eventually be persuaded that a spoiler tag on an entire synopsis is indeed redundant; that seems like one of the good parts of WP:SPOILER. Spoiler tags might be better reserved for a portion of a summary, like "SPOILER Then it turns out Bruce Willis has been dead all along. /SPOILER" But I think it's a violation of Wikipedia etiquette for a small group of editors to make wholesale changes to thousands of articles they're not personally familiar with, and I think spoiler tags should be left as they were before the purge until WP:SPOILER achieves a real consensus. As it now stands, the spoiler patrol deleted 45,000 spoiler tags without having to justify themselves; expecting every reinstatement of a spoiler tag to rigorously justify itself seems like quite an imbalance. --Jere7my 23:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Indeed, I can understand how people might be upset after a
nightweek of the long knives for spoiler tags, but I haven't really been a part of that. I doubt I've removed more than a 5-10, and most of that is re-removal. I tend to agree with your view of the policy; it didn't seem to me that an entire section should be tagged. --Eyrian 23:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)- OK. Thanks for the explanation, and apologies for lumping you in with the shadowy cabal. :) --Jere7my 00:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
- Indeed, I can understand how people might be upset after a
- You should really read Long Sun and Short Sun; they're both excellent. Anyway, as I said above, I might eventually be persuaded that a spoiler tag on an entire synopsis is indeed redundant; that seems like one of the good parts of WP:SPOILER. Spoiler tags might be better reserved for a portion of a summary, like "SPOILER Then it turns out Bruce Willis has been dead all along. /SPOILER" But I think it's a violation of Wikipedia etiquette for a small group of editors to make wholesale changes to thousands of articles they're not personally familiar with, and I think spoiler tags should be left as they were before the purge until WP:SPOILER achieves a real consensus. As it now stands, the spoiler patrol deleted 45,000 spoiler tags without having to justify themselves; expecting every reinstatement of a spoiler tag to rigorously justify itself seems like quite an imbalance. --Jere7my 23:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- No, I kicked out after Citadel. But how is knowing the plot relevant here? It is a matter of whether someone expects the plot to be spoiled from a synopsis/plot summary section, which is generally a universal criterion. --Eyrian 23:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- Have either of you read these books? If not, I submit that you do not have the necessary knowledge to make a decision about spoiler tags. I further submit that Tony Sidaway, at least, has an anti-spoiler tag agenda that goes beyond what is good for any particular article. Finally "how we do things on Wikipedia" is dismissive. Obviously, it's how some of "us" do things on Wikipedia. --Jere7my 16:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- I say remove them until the debate reaches consensus. Again, it's pretty obvious to me, speaking only in this single case, that putting a spoiler warning in a synopsis section is pretty unnecessary. --Eyrian 07:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
- This debate is not going to be settled here. Please leave the spoiler tags be until WP:SPOILER actually achieves consensus. --Jere7my 07:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
