Talk:Tengriism
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Talk:Tengriism/to do Having a little bit of knowledge about "Gods" in Tibetan Buddhism, please allow me to contribute as follows:
Could it be that Tengri and Palden Lhamo are the same. I could imagine that Palden Lhamo has reached Mongolia through the Tibetan monks that visited this country some 1000 years ago and introduced Buddhism there? Lamaism would have spread the Religion of Tengri all the way to Turkey. I have no better knowledge about the subject and would like to ask the writers of the Wikipedia texts to pl. have a look into my observations. --Peterbk (talk) 15:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC) |
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To-do list for Tengriism: | edit · history · watch · refresh |
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Talk:Tengriism/to do Having a little bit of knowledge about "Gods" in Tibetan Buddhism, please allow me to contribute as follows:
Could it be that Tengri and Palden Lhamo are the same. I could imagine that Palden Lhamo has reached Mongolia through the Tibetan monks that visited this country some 1000 years ago and introduced Buddhism there? Lamaism would have spread the Religion of Tengri all the way to Turkey. I have no better knowledge about the subject and would like to ask the writers of the Wikipedia texts to pl. have a look into my observations. --Peterbk (talk) 15:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC) |
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I have doubts that Tengriism is a Shamanism based blief system. As far as I know Tengriism existed in between Turks before Shamanism arrived to Central Asia. Before the mix with Shamanism Tengriism or the old Turkish Religion was like a Monoteistic blief system. Please check: Jean Paul Roux La religion des Turcs et des Mongols, ed. Payot, 1984. (translated into Turkish) Tengriteg
- Thats right. I know this book, and some others of Jean Paul Rox. But i've wrote this article before i read his books. The Tengrism articles in german and turkish wikipedia has already the correct version, but i forgat to change this one. "Shamanism based belief" is not correct, i'm changing it jet. ---Erdal 08:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Suggest to merge Tengri
Since Tengri and Tengriism are essentially the same topic, I suggest mergin them here. However, the information in Tengri must be treated with great care, as most of it doesn't seem to be supported by any sources (despite the references listed at the bottom). --Latebird 10:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Do you think that is really a good idea, considering the Tengri-influenced people of Kazakhstan can see the difference between Islam and Muslimness? :o)
- Add Tangra to this merge project.
- / Mats Halldin (talk) 05:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
- That part turned out to be easy, hence done. --Latebird 10:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
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- Tengri and Tengriism are not the sametopic. Simply Tengri is the Turkic name given to the god, and Tengriism is a blief system. Merging them is similar to merging Jesus and Christianity. Sincerely Täñritäg 11:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
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- And what specifically can you tell us about Tengri other than he is a deity as defined by Tengriism? With Jesus we have a biography that justifies a seperate article, so that comparison doesn't quite work as you suggest. --Latebird 11:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm opposed, it's just like merging Allah into Islam or Yahweh into Judaism. So far as I know they're all separate articles. --Chapultepec 04:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
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- Again, the comparison is misleading. This is not a competition between religions, but an editorial decision. In the cases of Allah and Yahweh, we have a lot of detailed information from primary and secondary sources that justifies seperate articles. In our case, we have enough for a nice article on Tengriism, but very little on top of that to put into a seperate article on Tengri (note how my specific question to that regard went unanswered). With the currently available information, the two articles are entirely redundant. --Latebird 07:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
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- The problem is that Tengriism is the religion, Tengri is the god. And so far as I know Tengri or Kök Tengri is the most superior god of this creed. But he is not the only one actually. In fact, he is just one of the gods within the related Pantheon. If you could look at the categories Altaic deities or Turkic mythology you would note that. So, all the related gods will have their own separate articles, but Tengri will not have the same chance, it seems a bit unjust to me. It's ok, with the currently available information, the two articles may seem redundant. But this situation is just for the time being, and in the future both of the articles will of course make progress and contain much abundant information than they currently have. So, I recommend that we keep the status quo and leave the articles separate. --Chapultepec 11:18, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
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- Please forget the idea of different topics competing against each other. Each individual topic will get a seperate article as soon as we have enough sourced material about it, but not earlier. Speculating about which will come first is pointless. Right now, we have two articles with content on the topic "Tengriism", one of them carrying the misleading title "Tengri". That's not an acceptable situation. Find independent and sourced information about Tengri (that that isn't also necessary to explain Tengriism), and I'll be the first to support an extra article. But until then, a redirect from Tengri to Tengriism is the only thing that makes sense. --Latebird 08:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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- I just read the article Tengri once more. There are of course attributions to Tengriism, but I didn't have the impression that I read an article on Tengriism. So, to my mind, the current information in the article Tengri is a good start on the way for it to be a separate article. The only thing the article needs is to make progress, to be improved, and that's all. I'll try to make advancements whenever I'll have time for that. --Chapultepec 11:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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Tengrii is a figure, tengriism is a religion. You cannot join the two. Just because the name implies worship of tengri doesnt mean it needs to be a part of it. For example it would be like mixing zeus with greek mythology, that doesnt go either. So, it should this way. 77.248.183.71 (talk) 22:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
