Talk:Teddington

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[edit] Teddington crest

City of London flag is incorrect, it doesn't apply to Greater London or to those towns/boroughs under the jurisdiction of the GLA/Mayor. Does anyone have a copy of the Teddington crest (a picture of a swan) or failing that a copy of the Middlesex coat of arms?

[edit] "Leafy, green and highly desirable"?

Somebody is keen to tell us that "Teddington is a leafy, green and highly desirable London suburb" (my emphasis). See the article's recent history for the editor's persistence.

He or she can either (a) provide clear evidence for the assertion that Teddington is significantly leafier, greener or more highly desirable than its neighbours, or (b) see such talk deleted per WP:NPOV. -- Hoary 23:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I hate to say it but I think that person is right because I heard somewhere that there are loads of trees and also apparently there is a huge park in Teddington. Hey ho, he or she may be wrong.87.113.24.102 19:30, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Of course there are loads of trees. There are also loads of trees in Richmond, Hampton Hill, Ham, etc. In effect (if perhaps not formally), the huge park is not part of Teddington; it's next to Teddington. And you haven't made even the feeblest attempt to show how the suburb is more "desirable" than others. Do please remember that this is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not second-form secondary-school homework. -- Hoary 22:18, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry what? I was just saying that he or she may of been right. No need to be so rude.87.112.90.232 10:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Also in this person's defence they probably know a lot more about Teddington than you do.87.112.90.232 10:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Also I would like to point out that your precious article contradicts what you say. You said that Bushy Park is next to Teddington, whilst the article says that Teddington is "home" to the park. Please don't waste my time with unencyclopedic nonsense and do please remember that this is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not second-form secondary-school homework.87.112.90.232 11:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC) It's pretty widely accepted that Teddington is leafy and desirable - that's why house prices are so high in Teddington. I've worked and lived in the area for around 10 years and most of the roads off the high street (particularly on the river side) are either lined or dotted with trees. There are a few green areas about, the river area of Teddington is lined with trees and Bushy Park borders Teddington (it also borders other towns but it is considered an asset and benefit of living in Teddington so why not list it under the Teddington Wiki page). Have a look at any map of the area and you can see this for yourself. Saying that Teddington is leafy doesn't mean that its more leafy than Richmond etc - just that it's green in itself, as is Richmond. Also using the word 'desirable' doesn't mean it's more desirable than its neighbours, just more desirable than the average town. Waldopepper 21:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

First "pretty widely accepted" is the wrong standard for inclusion; can anyone cite a reliable source for the belief that Teddington is particularly "leafy green and highly desireable"? Please see Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. But let's assume its true for the sake of argument. The real question is whether this is relevant. Its clearly a point of view and so doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article. It doesn't add anything substantial to the article, so why include it? What is the purpose? Its just hyperbole, its probably true of thousandsw of places, it isn't measureable so how do you decide which places it applies to? Gwernol 20:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Let me get this straight, youre argument for why 'leafy, green and highly desirable' shouldn't be in this article is comparison, ha! It is easy to compare anything to anyhting. For example everyone knows Tokyo is a big city, oh but hold on when you compare it to space it's not so big. Well, there's a shock. So now that I've proven your comparison argument is wrong I shall use the magic of numbers. Teddington is home to the 2nd largest park in London and there are hundreds of trees.87.113.81.113 22:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

No, that's not my argument - please read what I wrote rather than what you hope I wrote. In the meantime, please be aware that persistent WP:POV-pushing and violation of the three revert policy can both lead to blocking of your ability to edit Wikipedia. Thanks, Gwernol 22:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Just because you know you are wrong. How much do you actually know about Teddington?Mushimight

OK no worries, I was just answering Hoary's request for evidence (see above), but Wikipedia should not be objective in any case. The description in question could be interpreted as information about the town, but could fall on the side of simply a point of view - it's probably best left out anyway. It's always difficult to judge these comments depending on the article - something like "Hendrix was the most influential and talented electric guitarist in rock music history" is useful information, but still based on opinions, albeit widely accepted ones and it's sometimes difficult to cite collective sources of such views which you should really do. Waldopepper 23:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

OK how about, "Teddington has been described as leafy,green and highly desirable" or something along those lines.87.112.85.183 10:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that would be a good approach, though you'd need provide a citation from a reliable source which I'm guessing wouldn't be too hard to find. Gwernol 10:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Would a reliable source be the people around the area?87.113.22.38 18:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think so because it could easily be no more than a collection of points of view from various unnamed sources. You could perhaps claim consensus, but this would also require a reliable source (in response to 87.113.81.113 to describe something as "a big city" is to compare it to other cities, not to space and thus can be proved statistically), I I think some of the comments above were unnecessarily rude, and Teddington certainly is leafy, green and highly desirable to a great many people, but it can't go in the article without a source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Angel of Islington (talk • contribs) 03:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

This is really getting rediculous and we've got to somehow clamp down on it. This person is so bent on doing this dumb edit, he's created/using multiple IP addresses to avoid banning. I've sent the following message to most of the one's he's used so far and hopefully he'll read it here:

I and many other editors on Wikipedia would be most grateful if you could please do the right and considerate thing and stop this stupid row about "leafy, green and highly desirable" for Teddington which is blatant spamming, impossible to back up with reasonable citations and violates the rules for Wikipedia which the rest of us willingly abide by.

This is not the place for promoting your town, no matter how pleasant it may be, and if you would like to contribute to the Wikipedia community, please do so by making sensible, encyclopaedic edits that truly benefit others and do not reflect your own views.

As I say, we would all be very grateful if you will refrain from wasting your and our time when we could ourselves be making a positive difference to the article on Teddington and others, on this stupid, pointless and unhelpful endeavor.

Thank you. Alexllew 18:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I have put in a request for this to be protected. Alexllew 19:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I went for a walk yesterday and found the place (a) leafy (too many leafs if you ask me, but that's autumn for you); (b) green (positively verdant, this time of year); and (c) highly desirable (as attested to by the exorbitant prices in the estate agents' windows and the corresponding sold boards outside sundry houses). So the case would seem to be proved (proven?). 78.146.152.164 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 09:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, yes. Lots of leaves in Kew, too, and even more exorbitant prices.
I see that yet another IP has just now attempted again to stick in this stuff. So I deleted it. Further attempts to add this stuff will be treated as merely disruptive. -- Hoary 14:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I think Teddington is "leafy, green and highly desirable". However, my wife, who is from a small town in South Africa would describe Teddington as "bricky, urban and undesirable". She would do this on the basis that a) Teddington is full of houses, b) it's part of London and c) she doesn't like cities. That's rather obvious, but only from her perspective. You're comparing Teddington with other parts of London. She's comparing them with rural South Africa. THAT's why Wikipedia is not the place for unverified opinions, so please *stop it*. The Angel of Islington 23:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Names of Shops Allowed

If I were to right a sub-section on the two main shopping streets of Teddington would I be allowed to write the names of the shops or are there rules against that?Thebaronoflondon 18:43, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think any rules necessarily forbids that, but I also don't see that there's much point. Unfortunately -- sorry, that's PoV; if you prefer, "fortunately" -- (i) Teddington is much like other suburbs; (ii) the chainization [?] of the British shopping street is advanced. There's Andrews the most unusual camera shop, there are some good restaurants, there may well be one or two other remarkable places that I can't think of offhand, and, well, there are lots of shops that are the same as they are anywhere else. What were you thinking of adding? -- Hoary 23:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I was just thinking of writing a small paragraph on the two main shopping streets, the High Street and Broad Street. But luckily there are quite a few independent shops on these streets. The paragraph will probably be just slightly longer than the MP for Teddington (which I also wrote).? Thebaronoflondon 13:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Famous residents"?

The allegedly famous residents Charles Duncombe, Daragh Conor and Rufus Ferrabee are so famous that they're redlinked. Duncombe existed. Ferrabee only appears in commercial scrapes of Wikipedia; his article in Wikipedia was deleted. (I've read it; it looks like some schoolboy fantasy.) How about Conor? Without proof that he's notable, I'll soon delete mention of him. -- Hoary 01:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted mention of him. -- Hoary 11:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I've now deleted mention of him for at least the third time. Perhaps he's just some schoolboy joke. -- Hoary 02:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Does any reason exist for the absence of Thomas Traherne in this list? If not, I will add him. The Angel of Islington

I suppose it's just that nobody thought of him until you did. He's certainly worth listing. -- Hoary 00:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


Norman Henderson was actually a co-inventor of the Goosay Engine (2 cylinder, side valve, single crank) and the design was significantly enhanced after he emigrated to South Africa in the late 1800's.

Correct. There used to be a plaque about Henderson on Udney Park Road but it disappeared when the big house was pulled down to make way for flats. 78.147.110.67

[edit] The MP for Teddington

The infobox tells us that the MP is the MP for Twickenham. He has his own article. I don't see the point of summarizing it within this article too, and so I'm about to delete the section. -- Hoary 23:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

No. Bring it back, please. If someone didn't know who the MP of Teddington was they would come to this page to find out.Thebaronoflondon 15:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

There's an infobox on the right. One section is clearly labeled "Politics". Under that is "UK Parliament". Next to that is "Twickenham". On clicking that you reach Twickenham (UK Parliament constituency). To the right of that is an infobox, clearly saying that the MP is Vincent Cable. Where's the difficulty? Or do you really want this information to be duplicated in the article about every suburb within the constituency (Hampton Hill, etc etc), each of which would need updating on the event of the retirement, death, electoral defeat, etc., of Cable? -- Hoary 00:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The slate has been wiped clean

In a spirit of openness I have decided to remove all references to Teddington being 'leafy, green and highly desirable'. (this unsigned post was by 87.114.159.105)

Thanks a lot Alexllew 21:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Restored. Both in a spirit of openness and following Wikipedia policy old discussions on article talk pages are retained. Yes, discussions that are later regretted are retained too. (When a discussion becomes old, it can be archived.) -- Hoary 23:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
This has been restored two more times since the initial blanking - as Hoary indicates, discussion on article talk pages is retained until the entire talk page is archived to facilitate discussion and reduce clutter (but at which point, old discussions are still viewable on archive pages). This is extremely important to foster openness and allow editors to see what consensus has been reached on previous issues. Please don't continually blank the talk page - doing this repeatedly may be interpreted as vandalism. njan 15:52, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

They are of no use to anyone and simply demonstrate how only a few 'editors' control this page. Nothing more. They are worthless examples portraying the reactions of 'editors' when they don't go their way. So yes, in that case they are invaluable if you want to understand how this page is run. (the previous unsigned comment was by 87.114.142.209)

Please sign your posts, and again please stop doing stupid stuff just to spite people. This article can be freely edited by anyone and is not controlled by a few editors: things are only removed if they violate Wikipedia rules that's all. I'm sure you can appreciate that. Alexllew 17:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Bit rude, but I can't be bothered to complain any more. I have lost the will to care. If you are not willing to face up to the fact that you are far too strict on what goes up on this article and if you are not willing to accept this, I can't help you. Several times many people have placed things on this page, all of them with a great depth of knowledge on the whole of the London region. Historians, scientists, all of them with a good knowledge of the area, greater than yours I'm sure, have tried to add sections and every time they have been taken down. Simply because they are newcomers and are not in the group of ‘editors’. It saddens me. ... comment added at 18:12, 1 June 2007 by 87.113.16.60

  1. It wasn't rude at all.
  2. I note that immediately after saying that you can't be bothered to complain, you complain. I'm heartened by this sign of continuing energy.
  3. Wikipedia policies determine what can be placed in this or any other article. Those policies have to be interpreted and sometimes of course they're misinterpreted. Where's the beef with the interpretation? If on the other hand you reject the policies themselves, then in principle you can try to have them changed but in practice you won't succeed. Well, there are plenty of other opportunities for you to write about Teddington, for example your own website.
  4. I'm amazed by your knowledge that certain editors are historians, scientists or whatever. Perhaps you know (via ESP or whatever) what I do for my paying job. I don't know what you do -- and neither do I much care what you do, what Alexllew does, what anyone does. What I do care is whether a contributing editor can provide information that's verifiable and that doesn't smack of advertising.
  5. You can sign by hitting the tilde key four times in a row. -- Hoary 05:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear, this is sad. They were only five words. You can't admit when you were wrong as you messed up and missed out on the opportunity to have some great people writing for you. Hoary it's poor. Please don't answer back, I am too busy. Goodbye. ... added at 09:34, 2 June 2007 by 87.113.70.100

I think we should keep "leafy" at least. It's mid November and very leafy. Can we keep "leafy"?? 89.240.228.101 —Preceding comment was added at 19:35, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

OK guys, don't go mad. I've added a very much enlarged history section, tell me what you think. I'm sure it can be improved and changed. I think some more should be added to the modern day bit, but I'm all conked out. Give it a chance. Thanks. Alexllew 16:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The cause is clear here

Wikipedia must become a TRUE encyclopedia!!!

As of my last edit, the disgusting evidence of opinion and personal taste that was evident everywhere in this corrupt article that spoils the name of wikipedia has been purged, now we can rejoice. Wikipedia is becoming a harbour of pure fact, soon no intuition, personal thought, advancement or instinct will occur here, just pure logic and reason. This article contained null non-empirical facts. Enjoy fellow editors unite!

77.96.99.100 00:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to your set of enthusiastic edits, IP, the article was considerably degraded. For example, from:
By the beginning of the Second World War by far the greatest source of employment was the NPL. Its main focus in the war was military research and its most famous invention was the "bouncing bomb".
(which of course needs sourcing but at least makes sense) to:
By the beginning of the Second World War greatest source of employment was the NPL. Its main focus in the war was military research and its most invention was the "bouncing bomb".
I therefore reverted the lot. -- Hoary 02:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Do we really need so many [citations]for so facts that no-one of worth is actually challenging? The dramatic language that IP 77.96.99.100 is using suggests this unregisterd user is simply trolling for some sort of reaction and that's what he's getting. Why not simply revert the article to before his changes? Waldopepper 12:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

That's what I did. And then I looked at it and decided that it had a pile of assertions that weren't substantiated in the article. It's likely that several are entirely uncontroversial and substantiated in one or other of several books about suburban London that are possessed by editors here. Fine, then let's add the references. I don't know what, if anything, the troll had in mind and am not interested in trolls' fantasies or incoherent ravings: assertions need evidence before anyone bothers to ask for this evidence in an intelligible fashion. -- Hoary 04:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I do, in fact, agree with the 'troll' (please, think of better phrase it is so terrible). He, or she, is raising a valid point, which is that none of these claims were sourced whatsoever. So my message to you 'editors' is simple: pull your act together and get them sourced ASAP or before you know it you will have an army of 'trolls' on your hands.87.114.135.214 17:42, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Town/area

Why is Teddington called "an area of greater London" when it's just a town. Isn't it? Alexllew 16:31, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd say that a town is an urban area of middling size, surrounded by countryside. The Angel of Islington 23:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Could we perhaps say its a suburb of greater London? Alexllew (talk) 16:19, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I can't think of any objection to that. The Angel of Islington (talk) 07:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC)