Talk:TDI Vector

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[edit] Nyon, Switzerland

Further to the infobox are we sure the place of origin is not Washington, DC ?? Transformational Defense Industries is in Washington not Nyon. PianoKeys 15:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The country of origin is Switzerland. Look it up.--Asams10 18:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
That is the Principal corporation, the subsidiary that makes the weapon is in Washington. I think it should state Washington, not Nyon. It would be like stating Coca-Cola manufactured in Switzerland, is actually manufactured in the USofA because Coke's head office is there. In this case, it is a completely separate corporation. PianoKeys 10:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Maybe you're not looking at what it says. It says, "Place of Origin" and that is, indeed, Switzerland. I don't really understand why you don't want to list the place of origin as the actual place of origin. What's your agenda?--Asams10 15:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Colt's Manufacturing Company the parent company is correctly in Category:Firearms manufacturers in the United States the subsidiary Colt Canada is correctly in Category:Firearms manufacturers in Canada... now what is your agenda?? PianoKeys 18:51, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
It would appear based on the official website that the design and manufacture of the prototype took place in the United States, not in Switzerland. I'll keep looking into it.--LWF 18:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
FWIW: The inventors of the operating system live in Nyon, Switzerland according to the US patent. It is US Patent #7,201,094. D.E. Watters 18:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RPMs?

Any info on the Kriss's firerate?

Yes. I was told that its rate of fire is about 1500 rounds a minute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.98.27 (talk) 17:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeaaa considering the Mg42 and the PPsH-41 only had around 1200 and 900 respectivly i highly dought that, id give mayby 600 at best(ForeverDEAD 00:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC))

ForeverDEAD. I am afriad your wrong. The prototype of the Kriss does fire 1500 rounds a minute. However Thats just the prototype. If it enters military service they will likely modify it to give it a slower rate of fire.74.183.202.229 (talk) 02:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)13tawaazun14

[edit] When in service?

Does any one know when this would go into service with the US military or even if it will?74.183.202.229 (talk) 02:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)13tawaazun14

This isn't a discussion forum... The answer is never, BTW. --Asams10 (talk) 00:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me, but I just wished to know more about the history of the project as well as it's planned future, if it has one. I can't seem to find much information on the project.74.183.202.229 (talk) 02:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)13Tawaazun14

It's a prototype that the company is trying to sell, however there are few buyers. It might be tried by US Special Forces, but the concept of a submachine gun essentially died with the widespread use of body armor. Had the gun came out in the early 1930's, it'd have been the best thing eVAR, however it's simply too little, too late. --Asams10 (talk) 04:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I seem to recall reading that the company was planning on scaling up the system for larger cartridges, but that remains speculation.--LWF (talk) 06:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Guess I missed this comment when you made it. Yes, they are planning on scaling it up to 12ga and .50 BMG. There are balanced recoil systems on the market now... the Counterpoise system for the M16 and the AN94 Russian rifle. Both are more complicated than a few hundred rounds of trigger time necessary to use an automatic weapon effectively... My opinion, but interesting nonetheless. I'll admit that the idea of having TWO counterweights that completely negate the effect of recoiling parts creating separate implulses intrigues me. I think the .50 cal is going this way. Simpler than other systems, it'll be years before anything comes of this I believe. We'll see. --Asams10 (talk) 22:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] XSMG

This article is about the XSMG, it should be included in the name of the article. Asams10 has moved it incorrectly dropping of the XSMG portion of the name. 16:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Here is the article at the product homepage, note the name they use: KRISS Super V XSMG] In the case of Wikipedia, we note the manufacturer's acronyn first, in this case TDI making the article title: TDI KRISS Super V XSMG Chessy999 19:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Once again, there is no such thing as an XSMG. "TDI" is the name of the company, so what is "KRISS", what is "Super", "V", and "XSMG"? They are all hype and gibberish, that's what they are. Think "Rhino Ammo" that was ALL hype? The title of this article is all hype too. --Asams10 00:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Read the companies website, it is all described at that location. In addition, before moving an established article, build a consensus on the article's talk page first to avoid this type of issue. Chessy999 00:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Supposedly KRISS comes from kris, and at least according to their website, KRISS Super V is the operating system, and the XSMG is a specific gun that uses said operating system. Makes me wonder why they insist on using the name of the operating system in the name of the gun, instead of calling it the TDI XSMG.--LWF 00:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
That is the name used by the manufacturer for the firearm, listen to the name usage in the Future Weapons Video. Chessy999 02:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I read the entire web site, it says NOTHING about what anything but TDI mean. Further, you are the one changing the name of the article before building a concensus. It's been named this for a while. So, once again, READ MY POST and answer for me what all of those cheesy acronyms mean, otherwise, I'll make them lower case. It'll be the "TDI Kriss Super V Xsmg SMG!" Yeah, I'll put the exclaimation point in there because... DAMN! --Asams10 00:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, u did not read the wikipedia article. Chessy999 02:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
The reason behind KRISS was mentioned by someone from TDI in the youtube video. XSMG probably means something like eXtreme SubMachine Gun or some other unnecessary superlative.--LWF 02:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Uh, Chez, you're obviously adamant that your way is the right way but, AGAIN, I'm going to challenge you to explain what each part of the title means so that we'll all know. If KRISS is an operating system, then it should not be in the title. If XSMG is the type of firearm, then it needs to be deliniated as such. Oh, they REALLY invented a new class of firearm? REALLY? Hmmm, why am I skeptical? If I read you right, Cheese, you're saying several different things as we go along. Now you're saying that, instead of looking at the web page -- which, like an idiot, I did -- I should watch the youtube video. Oh, you're referencing youtube videos now? The same one that begins with the gross mistake of saying "fully-automatic submachinegun"? With the guy who's suddenly an expert on firearms because he was a SEAL? So, as I'm wasting 8 minutes of my life again, I notice that throughout they refer to it as the "Kriss." It's named after a sword. It's clear that Kriss is not an acronym and, therefore, should not be on all caps like the Glock... don't all-caps it...See that debate here and the policy Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(capitalization).
The Super V appears to be the operating system if you're going to reference the video. Now, since you don't seem to be reading what I write, I'll explain how the gun works for those of you who are left. The "revectoring" of the recoil forces is not new, it's been done by the Russians and was referred to in the West as a 'balanced' action.[1]. It was present on the Luger pistol's toggle-lock system, different looking, but the 'revectoring' is not new, not unique, and not particularly innovative. I'd recon it counts for about 20% of the reduction in muzzle climb. The primary reason the muzzle doesn't climb is because of the in-line design. The barrel is set in-line with the shooter's strong hand, directing recoil forces directly back. Funny, they don't talk about this much as it's not patented, it's been used for generations, most notably on the M-16 rifle, to reduce muzzle climb.
Bored yet? Good. I'm renaming the article again to TDI Kriss and taking out all 'official' references to XSMG as, again, that's a gimic. There is already a concensus, by the way, on naming conventions and now that you've had your fun, I'll change it to the proper name per this concensus here. Have a nice day. --Asams10 15:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the website states that KRISS Super V is the operating system, not Super V on its own. To me it appears that XSMG is this particular submachine gun's name.--LWF 20:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, maybe we can email them and ask them WTF? What does Kriss mean? What does Super V mean? What does XSMG mean? Of course, it's all solved because the youtube video solved it... or is my sarcasm a bit much here? I'm sorry. I take it back, Chesty. --Asams10 (talk) 00:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The correct name for this firearm is TDI KRISS Super V XSMG can someone contact an administrator to stop this Asams10 person from continually moving the article to new names that are not correct. Chessy999 (talk) 23:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Once more, you FAILED to read what I wrote. Naming convention is as follows: Manufacturer then model.Wikipedia:WikiProject_Firearms#Naming "Super V" is the operating system, not a manufacturer or model. XSMG is a marketing gimic, not a manufacturer or model. If you disagree, go make your case there. Your reversions and edits are contrary to Wikipedia policy, contrary to the concensus, and are starting to get annoying. Your only point is that it sould be what you say it is because you say it should be. --Asams10 (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Asams10, but I just edited your link to point to the guideline. No insult or any negativity intended. Although I still believe that XSMG is the model name, and KRISS Super V is the operating system per this page: [2]. Look at it where it makes a reference to the KRISS Super V system.--LWF (talk) 01:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello LWF, what do you feel the name for the article should be ?? Chessy999 (talk) 11:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, based on what I've been reading, TDI Kriss XSMG, TDI Kriss SMG, TDI XSMG, or TDI SMG would make the most sense. The first two are both used by TDI itself if you look around the website, and the second two because quite simply, they may refer to it one way, but there is no point in having the operating system in the name. It would be like if the TKB-0111, which employed a similar system for reducing recoil was called the TKB-Lafetted-Recoil-0111. Doesn't quite make sense , does it?
By the way, everyone please stop moving the page, including you Chessy, your last move was improperly performed, and it would be better if we didn't have to go and revert those.--LWF (talk) 14:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi LWF, I am willing compromise and go with the revised article name TDI KRISS XSMG. The KRISS part has to be capitalized as it is on the manufacturers website, Kriss would not be correct. Let me know what you think. Chessy999 (talk) 14:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
It's not a subject of compromise, it's a subject of policy and concensus. Kriss is a name and not an acronym. ONCE AGAIN AS I'VE STATED BEFORE AND YOU'VE IGNORED. If -- and who knows because you're not answering -- KRISS is the name of the operating system, then wikiproject firearms policy says to leave it out. It'd be the TDI XSMG. Continuing to ignore my posts and failing to respond is not helping your case. --Asams10 (talk) 15:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Considering you have moved the article to several different names, doesn't give me a lot of confidence that you know what you are talking about, no offense intended. Chessy999 (talk) 17:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
No, I'm reverting your moves. Get it right. Get off the personal attacks, Chez, you're wrong. --Asams10 (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Asams10 is right, Wikipedia consensus is that only acronyms be capitalized in full. That's why all the Glock articles are only Glock instead of GLOCK, even though Glock consistently capitalizes all the letters.--LWF (talk) 20:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay LWF, then we better call the article TDI Kriss XSMG. Can we capitalize XSMG ? Chessy999 (talk) 20:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
XSMG is clearly an acronym, although what the X stands for remains a mystery.--LWF (talk) 20:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Kriss is the name of the operating system (maybe) so it gets left out of the title by concensus. You don't say "M1 Gas-operated Garand Rifle" or "Remington Mauser-style Bolt Action Rifle." --Asams10 (talk) 21:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Part of the difficulty here is that TDI isn't all that consistent, sometimes it says "Super V system", other times it says "KRISS Super V system".--LWF (talk) 21:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Personaly i think that the name is "XSMG". They have defintly made clear that super V is the system they use not the weapons name. Esskater11 06:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New name?

Okay, so now it's the TDI Kriss Vector CRB/SO Super V XSMG? "Yeah, Dave, I gotta get me one of them thar TDI Kriss Vector CRB/SO Super V XSMG's! You want another beer?" --Asams10 (talk) 12:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TDI Vector

What's up with the new name that was moved without discussion first! Chessy999 (talk) 22:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, because that's what they are calling it now. I'd have thought you'd be happy. --Asams10 (talk) 22:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
They are calling it The KRISS® Super V Vector SMG™ Demonstration Prototype Not the TDI Vector. Chessy999 (talk) 00:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, right. We're not changing the article name to that. That's also not what they're calling it. Read the press releases. --Asams10 (talk) 01:35, 4 February 2008 (UTC)