Talk:Taxation history of the United States

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Contents

[edit] Colonial tax

From the discussion in Talk:Taxation in the United States one person suggested that the history of taxation should also include those from the colonial times, in specific the boston tea party. I thought to include sections of when the US were colonies of France and Spain particularly since those European countries demanded taxes to warehouse items in New Orleans that were shipped down the Mississippi from what was then the West and now the mid-West. Such European countries also demanded taxes of in Spain and Mexico, but that would require more research. Perhaps I'm being too bold by adding them. Also, what would be a better term for "colonial tax"?EECavazos 23:08, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creation

I noticed that half a year ago Morph suggested creating this article devoted to the history of taxation in the US. I took the liberty of creating it. If no one works on it but me, then it'll take a while to get it up to speed in order for reference as a main article to be made to it in Taxation in the United States.EECavazos 23:10, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Work in progress

I thought to be bold and create this right off even though much of the content is not readily entered all at once. It'll take a while to find all the applicable articles and do all the research. But, a first step is needed.EECavazos 23:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Approach

I think the best approach to the history of taxation in the United States would be a division by type of tax. This would enable easy direction to main articles for each type of tax and collateral articles on each type of tax (i.e. excise tax and whisky rebellion articles for the history section of excise taxes). EECavazos 00:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

I drafted a rough introduction that was short but extensive enough in scope to include all the different taxes imposed in the United States when it was a country and when it was a bunch of colonies. It needs a lot of work and is more of notice introduction than a substantive fact-based on. EECavazos 00:01, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger?

Check out Income tax in the United States#Legal History. Should there be a merger? There are two possibilities that I can think of offhand: (1) create History of Income Taxation in the United States and use that as a main article where we merge the history of income taxation from this article with the legal history found in Income tax in the United States, which I think would be better for an overall organization scheme, OR (2) just merge much of the legal history content from Income Tax in the United States into this article's section on income tax. EECavazos 03:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking of a scheme similar to History of Hong Kong, which is a broad history article where all the sections are concise summaries coupled with main articles that go into far more detail. Applying this scheme here, all the different forms of taxation like excise, tariff, income, estate, etc. would have their own separate history main articles. However, I don't want to go too far overboard that this article gives little to no information so as to become useless. EECavazos 03:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like a plan. :-) Morphh (talk) 3:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I did both options, real easy. Lets go with the one that meets your fancy. EECavazos 04:06, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
What ever happened here... The income tax article still has some tags on the merger. Morphh (talk) 3:58, 02 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Payroll tax

I suppose at sometime we'll have to make a section devoted to payroll tax. I don't have expertise on this, just a little knowledge, but I think in the next few days I can start making contributions.EECavazos 21:25, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I just remember reading something about this... let me find it. Ok.. this was a chain e-mail so forgive me and the partisan digs - I'm on my way out the door and just going to post it quick so you have something. Morphh (talk) 21:33, 03 October 2007 (UTC)

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be tax ed as income.

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to "put away" -- you may be interested in the following:

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities????

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking" deciding vote, as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the USA.

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

This is MY FAVORITE:

A: That's right! Jimmy Carter! And the Democratic Party of course! Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them , even though they never paid a dime into it!

Got it, I first moved over the history section from the FICA page. I also want to add some of the development after FICA started . . . pretty much what you talked about above.EECavazos 04:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative minimum tax

Added a section for the alternative minimum tax and I filled in some content from the main article.EECavazos 17:30, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Approach to different types of income taxes

Should there be different treatment for the different taxes that are within the realm of income taxes like AMT and capital gains tax, but which are distinguished with their own sections? Should we somehow merge capital gains tax into income tax in order to demonstrate that there are different types of taxes within the income tax while there are other taxes that are not within the income tax like gift/estate tax? Or would an explanation in the beginning of a the different income taxes be enough? I've taken this second approach because for now I think it's more workable. Incorporating all the different types of income taxes into the income tax section may be too unwielding.EECavazos 19:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tariff

These wikipedia articles may be quite helpful for the tariff section.EECavazos 21:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verbiage on Central Illinois case

I am moving this verbiage from the article to here:

Central Illinois Public Service Co. v. United States, 435 U.S. 21 (1978), confirmed that wages and income are not identical as far as taxes on income are concerned, because income includes not only wages, but any other gains as well. The Court in that case noted that in enacting taxation legislation, Congress "chose not to return to the inclusive language of the Tariff Act of 1913, but, specifically, 'in the interest of simplicity and ease of administration,' confined the obligation to withhold [income taxes] to 'salaries, wages, and other forms of compensation for personal services'" and that "committee reports ... stated consistently that 'wages' meant remuneration 'if paid for services performed by an employee for his employer'". Id. at 27.

This needs to be reviewed carefully. The issue presented in the case was not whether wages and income are "identical". Stay tuned. Famspear (talk) 21:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, here's the deal on the U.S. Supreme Court decision in the Central Illinois case. As I have previously noted in another talk page, the U.S. Supreme Court did not establish, in the Central Illinois case, that “wages” and “income” are not "identical. Of course, it is correct that the two have never been “identical,” as “income” includes more than just “wages.” That was simply not the issue presented to the Court, and it was not an issue decided in the case.
Instead, the Court ruled that under Internal Revenue Code section 3401, an employer who reimbursed employees for lunch expenses during company travel was not required to withhold federal income tax on those reimbursements. Why? The lunch reimbursements simply did not qualify as "wages" for purposes of the section 3401(a) withholding requirements. The case was NOT about whether wages are income, or whether wages and income are identical, or whether income includes gains other than wages, etc. To avoid confusion, I argue that the verbiage should simply be left out of the article. Famspear (talk) 21:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I have no objections to leaving it out. Morphh (talk) 21:43, 06 February 2008 (UTC)