Talk:Tarja Turunen

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Contents 1 Concerns 2 Who did she marry? 3 Wiki links 4 Beto Vazquez 5 Location 6 Discography? 7 Response Letter 8 Interview 9 Henkäys Ikuisuudesta 10 Links 11 Somebody change the picture 12 Funky grammar 13 Voice 14 IPA pronunciation of her name 15 Requested move

[edit] Concerns

A couple things bother me about this article; I'm prettyvery new to Wikipedia, so "be bold" aside, I'll cast my concerns out here before any sweeping rewrites...

This doesn't strike me as all that encyclopedic. It reads rather gushily, as if it were Tarja's PR, or a fan bio. There's rather a lot of unnecessary detail as well; e.g., three whole paragraphs about the documentary? Or the title of every single magazine in Europe that has put Tarja on the cover? Wouldn't much of this work better in the main Nightwish article (in the case of detailed band history), or simply be removed entirely? Or is it just me? Fargnax 10:19, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)

Since nobody seems to have objected, I've gone ahead and removed the fannish minutiae, and rephrased much of what's left (the original article was just an abridged version of Tarja's official biography, it turns out) (link fixed). The end is a bit sketchy to me, as the article (and Tarja's own bio) stopped at 2003, with guesses at what might happen in '04; I pieced together what I could. Fargnax 05:23, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

I think the new and improved article is a great biography of Tarja and is by no doubt, unworthy of Wikipedia. Tarja deserves to be mentioned on this site and i think whoever changed the article to look the way it is now did a GOOD job!

[edit] Who did she marry?

I noticed on the Nightwish main article that it lists her as being wed in 2003. The question is, to whom? Just noting it without any name seems a little sketchy to me but in a way understandable if this person is deliberately steering clear of the backwashed limelight coming from his wife and her band.

The Argentinian businessman Marcelo Cabuli is Tarja´s husband.

[edit] Wiki links

Was this page unwikified? I can understand not wikifying television, but a lot of the stuff you unwikified might be interesting to someone reading the article. If they don't want to read the other article, they can simply not click the link. This is troubling since I can think of no benefit for removing functionality from this article. Therefore I am going to restore some of the Wiki links. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 21:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

• Wikifiying doesn't mean adding a bunch of unecessary links. If anything thats the opposite. These blank pages are blank because they are nor important or popular enough to have an article. Here are some pages to consider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(links)

• I hope you understand why I removed so many links and I hope you get a proper understanding of what Wikifying means. --Arm 23:02, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Do you want me to describe why I unlinked each individual word or what? Heres some:

symphonic power metal = made-up category. symphonic metal and power metal already have an article so this is worthless redundancy.

Timo Turunen = not important enough for an article. What has he done that makes him deserve an article? If he becomes famous then we will make an article for him but now it's not needed. And no, simply. being related to someone famous is not enough for fame.

Tarjas solo songs, not popular songs enough for an article. Unless a song is over seventeen minutes long, caused an entire phone number to be unusable or one of the most famous metal songs of all time, I doubt how those songs are that important.

A lot of individual songs and albums have gotten their own articles. Heck, there is someone making an article for every individual episode of The Simpsons, I believe. Besides, not all the wiki links you removed were red links. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 00:22, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

And those simpsons songs are popular in their own right, Tarjas are not. Look just because a singer in a popular band makes a solo album doesnt mean that it's popular enough to warrent an article. and those blue links I removed were because of redundancy. Read the link policy and understand it. You may also try looking at other pages for an idea of where to apprioporatly put links.

This is outrageous, Tarja is one of the best known female singers in Europe, i think that qualifies her songs to be listed. Users on Myspace will have access to her songs and she has released a single and completed a christmas tour. The soings SHOULD be mentioned. (Neostinker 17:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC))

Erm.... I agree with the above comment. There are articles about people that are FAR less well known than Tarja. For 9 years she was the lead singer of one of if not the most popular metal band in Europe - a band that went multi platinum in many contries and who regularly headlined music festivals. Apparently she's not famous enough Scottcabal 09:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

If you still disagree, don't use Wikipedia. And to be on the safe side, cancel your internet connection and turn off your computer. --Arm 00:38, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Beto Vazquez

"(...) and Argentinian bassist Beto Vazquez's internationally successful album Infinity."

Beto Vazquez Infinity is a band. Visor 09:42, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

fixed (also i made Beto Vázquez Infinity article)--Neo139 02:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location

"Tarja Soile Susanna Turunen Cabuli (born August 17, 1977, in Kitee, Finland). Turunen began to study music at age six, and moved to the city of Kitee at 18 to study at the Sibelius Academy. " Is she moved from Kitee to Kitee, to study in Academy, which located in Helsinki? Sorry, my English is not good.

[edit] Discography?

Shouldn't there be a discography of all the Tarja Turunen albums/singles/whatever? There is that Nightwish box thingy at the bottom, but that only deals with Nightwish albums/singles/whatever, not her solo career. On a related note, should that box thingy even be there? Crimson Shadow 02:53, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure there should be a discography-thing (also there's a little point in a discography yet; she has only released one single as of now). Also, I think that box should stay; people still associate her with Nightwish. Tarja and Nightwish are often mentioned in one breath. And it probably will remain that way, until Nightwish finds a new singer and Tarja releases an album that performs well on the charts. —♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 05:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Tarja acheived the number one single for christmas in 2005 without Nightwish, she has had hits with tracks such as Until Dawn, Tired of Being Alone, One Angels Dream, Romeo Ce Juliet and Sadness in the night, this is not including the work she has done with the academy. I think that her songs should be on her page, just as Nightwish songs are on the Nightwish page. (Neostinker 17:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC))

The discography omits Tarja's second single of christmas 2006. She released "Happy New Year", which is a promotional single and wasn't sold anywhere. Should it nevertheless be in the list? Also, the Nightwish section omits the 2001 EP "Over the Hills and Far Away". There was also a 2005 collection "Highest Hopes". --194.251.240.113 23:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response Letter

We have a link to the "open letter" by nightwish, but not to her response letter. I can't find it to link on her webpage. Anybody? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vaergoth (talk • contribs) .

It is in Google cache.^[1] -- ReyBrujo 20:44, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interview

There is an interview at http://www.muzicisifaze.com/alt_articol.php?id=25 which we may be able to use in the future to expand the article. -- ReyBrujo 03:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henkäys Ikuisuudesta

I've mostly finished the entire page about Tarja's Christmas album, the only thing that is missing is getting the track list order (which is yet to be announced). Other than that, I don't believe there is much more needed on that page, but please go on and take a look :) If you have any comments or suggestions, feel free to contact me Halliwell3 19:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, most of the site for "Henkäys Ikuisuudesta" is now complete, track listing and album length ;) Halliwell3 20:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

There seems to be quite a bit of conflict about the links section, with sites getting added and removed daily. I suggest we all decide which ones are relevant and which aren't. Crimson Shadow 11:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I would like to know why you are deleting all the fansites listed on page except from 2. How come that no one else is allowed to add their websites as long as they are in the right language and actually works.

User:TheSatanicNun 11:23, 4 January 2007

Basically because your site has no Alexa rank. However, to be just, I have removed all but the official ones. -- ReyBrujo 12:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somebody change the picture

That is the worst picture of her and I think its a horrible representation of her. I would change the picture myself but I don't know how to do any of that copyright stuff. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.4.117.101 (talk) 05:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

Find a free alternative and upload it, it's not so hard. —♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 16:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean Free alternative? Just find a picture online? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.55.185.254 (talk • contribs).

No, find a picture where the photographer releases it under a free license that allows to do anything, including selling it, usually Creative Commons Share Alike, Creative Commons Attribution, or GFDL. 99% of the pictures you can find online are not "free" in the meaning we want. -- ReyBrujo 21:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

How would I go about finding one like that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.4.124.63 (talk • contribs).

Usually, you should contact a photographer. Try going to www.flickr.com, and search for images of Tarja, then ask the users if they had taken the picture themselves (if they have picked it from a website or a magazine is not "their" image), and ask them to release the image under a free license, CC-BY or CC-BY-SA. -- ReyBrujo 16:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Just to let people know, Tarja will be assisting the International Book Fair down here (Argentina). I will try get a couple of good pics of her (although she will likely be using casual clothings). -- ReyBrujo 01:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Funky grammar

I know this isn't really *that* important a point to make... but who are these lemons who insist on changing "is the former lead singer" to "was the former"? Perhaps we should change "former" to "founding", "initial" or something similar so that the "was" actually makes sense. :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.209.75.72 (talk • contribs).

I think the problem is that "is the former" is taken as "she used to sing, but now does not sing anymore, however she is alive" while "was the former" is taken as "she used to sing in that band, but now she does not because she died". -- ReyBrujo 05:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Lemons? No thanks 87.209.75.72, I fancy an apple. On a more serious note, you can check who "have insisted on changing" by using the history tab. Also I recommend you not to refer to fellow editors anymore using 'fruity' vocabulary. It is not just rude, it's a sign of disrespect. —♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 05:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

You certainly outrank me on this site... so, point taken, I'll have to defer to your authority for now. Still, don't forget that to say that something "is rude" could be (by some) considered to be POV. WP:POV :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.209.75.72 (talk • contribs).

Nice try. The POV policy is meant for articles, not for talkpages.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 17:23, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Voice

Since Tarja is a trained opera singer, would it be a good idea to have a small section on her voice and other related items? Or since she hasn't really been in a real opera of any sort, would that just be a load of unnecessary information? Ender666999 04:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

If you can reference the section (adding links to interviews or experts talking about her voice) sure. What we cannot say is "Tarja Turunen has a voice matching the best ones in the world" because that is considered a personal opinion and not information. -- ReyBrujo 01:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense. I found an interview where she talks about her vocal range, but where should I put the information? Should it be a separate section or a subsection? Ender666999 03:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

She is trained in lied, not opera; that is probably the single most frequent misconception about her, which she has herself countered repeatedly in interviews (in fact, she has emphasised that she does not think of herself as a classical singer, but simply a singer - who happens to have undergone classical training; she is clearly a crossover singer like Sarah Brightman). According to her blog, her range is F3 to D6. Florian Blaschke (talk) 05:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IPA pronunciation of her name

Is there any way we can get an IPA pronunciation of her name? I don't speak Finnish and would like to know how her name is pronounced in its native Finnish. Perhaps any Finnish speakers on here who know the IPA can help us out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.246.153.217 (talk) 07:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Finnish is simply pronounced the way it's spelled, in other words all letters are pronounced as in the IPA. --Espoo (talk) 10:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

How wonderful! In Spanish it is also pronounced the way it's spelled! ;-) -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Not true. For example, tell me why the word "hablar" is spelled hablar and not just ablar, since the h isn't pronounced. Also, why do both ge/gi and je/ji exist? Wouldn't one spelling be sufficient? Not only that, but b and v make the same sounds (yes, there are two different sounds, one is a plosive like the English b, the other is more of a buzzing sound that usually occurs between vowels but at times in other locations; however, no matter which sound is being made, the assigning of b or v to the word is totally random). Also, let's not forget the infamous word "Mexico" which should be spelled Mejico but which the Mexican people have resisted. In other words, Spanish is not totally spelled as it's pronounced.Joeschmoe2003 (talk) 00:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

There are exceptions, and I doubt all the spelling differences add more than 10% of the total. Also "Tarja" is pronounced "Targa" instead of "Tarja" in Spanish language, even in Finnish. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

"Tarja" is pronounced "Targa" makes no sense unless you define what you mean with those spellings. You are in any case clearly using the letters of the Latin alphabet to mean other sounds than those agreed on in the International Phonetic Alphabet, which is essentially based on the "original" use of the alphabet in Latin, which is also essentially the same as their use in writing Finnish. G was pronounced in Latin as in the English word "go" (e.g. Gallia), and that is the sound of the letter in the IPA, and the Finnish name "Tarja" is definitely not pronounced /targa/.

You can essentially take almost any Finnish words and indicate their pronunciation by simply writing them between the symbols "//" or "[]" (which signifies you're using the letters in accordance with IPA usage i.e. according to their original usage in Latin) because they are spelled in accordance with Latin and IPA usage. You cannot do that with Spanish although Spanish is written in a very consistent way that usually differs from IPA usage in the same way every time. That means that although Spanish does not use all letters according to their original Latin usage, pronunciation can almost always be determined from spelling. So if you know how a Spanish word is spelled, you can usally know how to pronounce it, but if you know how to pronounce it, there are often several possible ways of spelling it (only some of which may be in use) and some of these use the Latin letters in violation of their original and IPA values. Finnish, in contrast, is both spelled the way it is pronounced and pronounced the way it is spelled, which is not true for Spanish. For more info and for why Mexico should not be spelled Mejico, see Help:IPA and Mexico#Toponymy and Mexican_Spanish#Fricatives. --Espoo (talk) 11:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not discussing that. I am just saying that, in Spanish, most Spanish words are pronounced the way they are written. And you are saying the same, that in Finnish most Finnish words are pronounced the way they are written. Whether there are 1% or 10% of exceptions is little compared with the common cases. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 15:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

As for "Tarja with j sounding like g in go", she said that was fine enough when we met her. Don't doubt it is pronounced "with j sounding like y in yes", just teasing you :-P (haven't you noticed the ";-)" in my very first reply in this thread?) -- ReyBrujo (talk) 15:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about the IPA way, but I've always heard it pronounces "Taria" and i sounding like the ee in knee.Shadows and Lace (talk) 05:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move