Talk:Tao-Klarjeti
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
Tao-Klarjeti is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on the country of Georgia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. | ||
| Start | This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) |
||
Can anyone point me towards evidence of Tao and Klarjeti as separate entities - ie not an area known as "Tao-Klarjeti"? All the evidence I can find on and off line indicates that there only ever was an entity with a hyphenated name. And if that is the case both Tao and Klarjeti can redirect here.--Silver149 12:59, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
I would like to note non-neutrality of this article. Both Armenians and Georgians dispute historical inheritance to the land. At least some of the area is unquestionably historically Armenian (Karin/Erzerum) and some of the rulers were Armenian natonals of the faith(Ashot, Smbat, Gurgen ...- All Armenians). Area was part of one of the Armenian vilayets in the Ottoman Empire. This article should be made more neutral, it ia innacurate and offensive to some.
Could anyone write the Armenian history of the Armeno-Georgian marchlands in Northeastern Turkey? This would be excellent! I completely agree that two versions are needed, and I am looking forward to see the results. Please state your sources.
For a start, I could propose the following (it could be subtitled "The Armeno-Georgian marchlands in Late Antiquity"): Throughout Antiquity, the region belonged alternately to the Persian and Roman-Hellenistic sphere of interest, while Georgian and Armenian kings, usually as vassals of the Persians and Romans, ruled over it by turns. Christianity came to Tao-Klarjeti in the beginning of the 4th century AD; at least we are told by the Georgian chronicler Leonti Mroveli that Bishop Iovane founded a church at Erusheti on his way home from Constantinople, where to he had been send by King Mirian, the first Christian ruler of Iberia (i.e. Eastern Georgia). Towards the end of the 4th century, the Georgians lost Klarjeti to the Romans, while Tao or Tayk, which had belonged to the Armenian crown since the Artaxiad dynasty, came under Persian control as a result of the partition of Armenia in 387. After the uprising in 451, which was led by Vardan Mamikonian, a noble from Tayk, the province was occupied and looted by Persian troops. - I am looking forward to read your comments!
-
- Im sorry but you are mistaken. To claim that Ashot, Sumbat and Gurgen were Armenians are just simple POVs. There are many sources which claim otherwise. Noxchi Borz 17:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
It is your opinion, until soeone non-pov and not a sock puppet will come in, no one will believe your pov ...And these are armeinan names, as armenian as it gets .... Ashot? Gurgen(Kiurike)? Smbat? who are you kidding? I would advise you to try to prove the sky is green while you are at it!
-
- You seem to be a sock puppet yourself. Armenian chauvinistic attacks on Wiki articles have demonstrated direct violation of NPOV. I do maintain NOPV. Georgian kings also had names like David, Solomon and it did not mean they were Jews. Ashot, Gurgen, Sumbat were Georgian nobles and there are vast among of sources both historic and scholarly which conform that (please refer to reliable primary and secondary sources). Claiming that they were Armenian is POV. I would advice Armenian users to maintain NOPV and use ultra-nationalistic rhetoric somewhere else. Please present sources for any changes you make to an article. Noxchi Borz 00:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] For the moment
Thank you for the comments. Obviously, Vardan Mamikonyan was one of the most famous of the Armenians, and coming from this region, very errenous to simply label this are as Tao-Klarjeti, and call it Georgian. I suggest for the moment to label this as a disputed article, and refer to the discussion. Title should be changed from Tao-Klarjeti to Tao-Klarjeti/Tayk.
First of all: I am very happy that we have a constructive discussion about this subject, and I am sure that it will develop in a positive way. The Armenian perspective is very important. Apart from the above stated, the era of Catholicos Nerses should be included in the article, and there should definitely be links to both "Tayk" and "Armenian history". Because of practical reasons, however, I would suggest that the title of the article remains "Tao-Klarjeti". But it certainly needs adjustment. Let's work on this. Best wishes!
I propose creating a separate page directed for Tayq :
Tayk (Tayq)
Throughout Antiquity, the region belonged alternately to the Persian and Roman-Hellenistic sphere of interest, Armenian kings, usually as vassals of the Persians and Romans, ruled over it . Tayk, which had belonged to the Armenian crown since the Artaxiad dynasty, came under Persian control as a result of the partition of Armenia in 387. After the uprising in 451, which was led by Vardan Mamikonian, a noble from Tayk. Later on this region compromised one of the Armenian Bagratuni Kingdom of Tayk. It was occupied by Byzantines in about 1000 A.D. After this the are was occupied by succesive foreign dynasties. Are now part of Northeastern Turkey.
[edit] Links
It would be wonderful, if there were one or two more accurate articles on the Bagratid rulers of Armenia and Georgia. For the moment, it is not functioning at all: the searches for Bagratuni and Bagratid are automatically redirected to Bagrationi. I have therefore decided to delete the link in this article to Bagratuni/Bagrationi. The article should be listed as Bagratid rulers and it should have two sections: one on the Armenian Bagratids and one on the Georgian ones. I will be happy to re-establish the link any time in the future, when there is an article which considers both sides.
