Talk:Tamaskan dog

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Tamaskan dog article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	Dogs Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Canines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
Low	This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it needs.

This breed has now been around for a few years and in several countries, it has had both brief and lengthy references in a few newspapers, magazines and online. They also have three main club websites as well as numerous breeders websites. I believe they deserve a page on wikipedia, I believe they are a 'new' but genuine breed. Exhaustfumes

I am a huge wolf lover and advocate. I also love the northern breeds. In my search for the closest dog to the wolf look that I love, I stumbled across the Tamaskan. I found that, while there are other breeds claiming to have the wolf look and no content, the Tamaskan most closely resembled what people typically picture when they think of a wolf, from the coloring to the markings. Of course, wolves vary widely as well, but to most closely resemble the typical look, I chose the Tamaskan. I am very happy with my puppy, as she is very smart, and unlike the northern breeds, not as independent. I have found all the people I've dealt with so far to be honest and knowledgeable. Of course, there are those out there that will always have issues with anyone or anything they deal with that does not meet their own agenda. I have found that honesty is the best way to go. I think there is room for any type of dog and dog lovers of all kinds. People should be presented with the truth and facts so that they can make their own educated decisions. I also like the support of the TDR and it as the central registering agency. I believe this will help the success and future of the breed by cutting down on copy-cat breeders trying to fulfill their own selfishness by taking advantage of others that are sincere. I am looking forward to breeding my puppy in the future, and watching interest for and owners of the Tamaskan continue to grow here in the US and abroad. Ta-Kari Tamaskans —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.55.155 (talk) 01:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date of Origin?

Hi Exhaustfumes,

I see that you have changed the year of initial Tamaskan breeding back to "in the begining" instead of 2005. It was myself who edited this part of the page to read 2005 after research into the breed through the links provided on the wiki page.

Please provide some information about the date of initial matings so that the information on the wiki page can be corrected.

Best regards, Onefivenine —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onefivenine (talk • contribs) 17:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure where you got your information from, could you provide a link that works? The only referance I can find to 2005 is the first Tamaskan imported into America. Exhaustfumes

Hi Exhaustfumes,

I've just checked the link to Blustag above, it seems to be working fine. It goes straight to the history page with the information about the origins of the breed. Below is the info from the page in its entirety. The text in bold I have added to highlight the sections that I founded my opinions on.

"The first dogs to start the ball rolling which led to the Tamaskan Dogs of today came over from America in the 80’s. These 5 dogs were imported into UK and described as husky type dogs – origins unknown.

These dogs were then bred to Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky and German Shepherd crosses – origins unknown, with the idea in mind of creating a dog that resembled the wolf but with a good temperament thus being suitable as a family dog foremost with working ability.

In the early days with selective breeding by a couple of people these dogs were mated to perhaps pure Siberian Huskies or first generation crossbreeds. A couple of German Shepherds were also used and Alaskan Malamute but after that they were selectively bred to each other over a few years trying to create this wolf look-a-like (up until this time no one is 100% certain of the breeding programmes as no records were made available) . Eventually given the name wolf-dog, but in approx 1988 changed to Northern Inuit (NI) as there was no wolf content and this name was misleading. A Northern Inuit Society was then formed."

So far this is the history of the Northern Inuit, one of the founding breeds used to create the Tamaskan

"However, some time later there were differences of opinions now the breed was developing and this led to a split and a new Society starting up. With two NI Societies and the breed going in two directions one Society decided to change the name of the breed to the Utonagan to disassociate itself with the NI. A Utonagan Society was then formed. The new Utonagan were by now starting to look quite different to the NI (who to this day are still running their own Society) but still not looking wolf-like enough, although temperaments of all of these dogs were exemplary. After a short while there was yet again another split due to differences of opinions and again a new Society was born called The British & International Utonagan Society headed by the then President of the original Utonagan Society along with some of their members.

The original Utonagan Society then ceased to exist until some time much later when it was resurrected by a new committee.

Meanwhile The British & International Utonagan Society continued to selectively breed and improve type, keeping all records of mating’s, health issues etc and started a hip scoring and eye testing scheme, setting rules and regulations, a code of ethics and providing breeder’s contracts. Eventually these dogs started to look different to the dogs being bred by The (original) Utonagan Society."

The above section relates to Utonagans

"Sadly the original breeder’s had kept inaccurate records in the breeds beginnings, mating’s had taken place of closely related dogs resulting in some health issues creeping into the breed. This was not discovered until much later. What was now needed was a new injection of healthy unrelated bloodlines meaning that they had to look elsewhere for new dogs with the look and working ability that was needed, not forgetting temperament which they certainly did not want to loose.

"It was at this point in time in 2005 that the search for other wolfy looking dogs with similar ancestry led to Lapland where dogs of a very similar appearance were being bred for sled pulling in extreme temperatures. These dogs close ancestors were also some of the best sled racing dogs in the world and would enhance the breed’s future working ability.

After some negotiations with the kennel owner a female was purchased and imported into UK in early 2005 with a further six dogs booked for early 2006 from the same kennels.

The two sections above are as far as I can make out the start of the Tamaskan dog as a breed independent from the founding breeds.

"With a collection of new bloodlines now organised it was time to think about the future. It was then decided by the committee members of the British & International Society after much debate to close down the Society as the old (original) Utonagan Society had just been resurrected with a new committee who did not wish to follow the standards of The British and International Utonagan Society or to include new bloodlines in their breeding program. Therefore it seemed obvious that the present Utonagan would soon not resemble the ‘new’ dogs whatsoever and they would need a new name. It was in 2005 that the original female imported from Finland was then taken back to Finland along with 7 selected dogs from the Blustag Kennels of UK.

The reserved six dogs were then collected from Lapland, out of these; two were exported to UK in early 2006, an adult male and female from different litters.

It was very early in 2006 after The British and International Utonagan Society closed down that The Tamaskan Dog Register was formed. Tamaska means ‘Mighty Wolf’ in North American Indian language The Tamaskan Register is the governing body now for all Tamaskan dogs throughout the world and was formed by the original committee members of The British and International Utonagan Society. Since forming in early 2006 there is now a Tamaskan Dog Society of Great Britain and a National Tamaskan Club of America along with The Tamaskan Register based in Finland.

Tamaskan have been exported from Finland throughout 2006 to Holland, UK, Sweden and USA and have also been exported from UK to USA. Early 2007 saw four more (from different litters) being sent overseas to USA.

The Tamaskan has a very bright future and must NOT be confused with the Utonagan whose standard is somewhat different. The main differences being the depth of stop, shape of head, length of coat and the Utonagan’s acceptance of a wide range of colours and markings. With many other small differences the Tamaskan is in all a different breed which anyone can see by comparing pictures from the Tamaskan Gallery with those found on The Utonagan Society Gallery." Onefivenine —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onefivenine (talk • contribs) 19:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but I have tried from two seperate computers to view the 'link' you have provided and it just does not exist. To stop any further arguments about this I will remove any reference to the date whatsoever. Exhaustfumes —Preceding comment was added at 11:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Exhaustfumes,

The web page containing the above information has now been removed but I can confirm that the page was there untill the 9th of January 2008 and have the screen shots to prove it. It appears as though the Blustag Kennel was one of the founding kennels of the breed and as such their information should be accurate. I do not understand what the problem is with date this breed was created, be it 3 years or 30!

Do you have any contradictory evidence for the date of origin of this breed?

Regards

Onefivenine--Onefivenine (talk) 12:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Exhaustfumes,

The same information relating to the origin of the Tamaskan dog is available through the following link doublejkennels and was easy to find via a google search.

I will change the Wiki page back as this information seams to be accurate and verifiable.

Onefivenine--Onefivenine (talk) 12:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Personally I believe that information should be taken from club websites and reliable sources rather than breeders websites but I will leave it for discussion.

Exhaustfumes —Preceding comment was added at 12:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I have emailed the TDR who have informed me that the dates can be argued, but the oldest recorded 1st generation Tamaskan was born in 2002 although the breed register (and clubs) weren't formed until later.

Exhaustfumes 1:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

By adding the 2002 it is out of context so that would be wrong. Which is why I had left it without an exact date so as not to confuse people. But if you insist on having a date of origin I suppose we must leave it as 2002, although I don't believe we need to mention the date of origin at all as it is clearly arguable. Exhaustfumes 3:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The breeds used in the Tamaskan Explained

Hi Exhaustfumes,

I think the page looks great. I've been adding internal links but could not find any information on Finnish racing huskies, if you have any information could you start a wiki page as I can't find any info anywhere about these dogs.

Cheers

Onefivenine--Onefivenine (talk) 18:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Finnish racing huskies are not a breed in themselves, they are basically Alaskan huskies and are not registered, a mix of husky and other fast breeds designed to create the ultimate sled racing dog. Perhaps a better way of saying it would be Finnish Arctic Huskies?

Exhaustfumes 7:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh right, a bit like a Eurohound. I've heard of Arctic Huskies but just assumed that they where also a little known breed.

Do you have any info about the actual dogs used, like what sort of mix they where, or any pics?--Onefivenine (talk) 21:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I do, but I don't think I should complicate the article by adding stuff like that, its quite lengthy now as it is.

Exhaustfumes 11:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I didn't mean for you to add that info to this page, but thought that perhaps you could start a Finnish racing huskies page as no one else has contributed any information about these dogs. If these dogs are of the same make up as the Eurohound then we could just add an internal link to that page.--Onefivenine (talk) 00:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well no, there is no finnish racing husky as a breed. They are basically Alaskan Huskies that are from Finland. The dogs used to create the Tamaskan in Finland were either pure FCI registered Siberian huskies or a husky cross from finland designed for racing (finnish racing huskies for want of a better way of putting it). --Exhaustfumes (talk) 11:57, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Validity

This article was deleted, with an overwhelming majority of people deciding to delete it rather than keep it. Many state that it's an elaborate hoax; there is no Tamaskan breed; is there new evidence to warrent recreating this article? If not, I might suggest it be deleted again (as much as I'd like for there to actually be Tamaskan dogs, since I love wolves). Has anything changed since this articles deletion? 207.12.38.107 (talk) 13:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and it might be a good idea to dredge up the old deleted article (if possible), look at what was written on it, and incorporate that info into this new article. And guys, if I don't get a response in a reasonable time, I might contact a mod to put this article back up for voting. 207.12.38.107 (talk) 14:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

This article was deleted last time purely because of a lack of published sources, since its first deletion on wikipedia the Tamaskan has appeared in local newpapers and national magazines therefore following the requests of Wikipedia members for reinstatement in the encyclopedia. This is a real breed to suggest it is a hoax is ridiculous. (Exhaustfumes) 17:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.176.114 (talk)

I think the article should be left up--Ltshears (talk) 00:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)