Talk:Tajikistan

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Contents

[edit] Otakhon Latifi

Can someone work a mention of Otakhon Latifi in here somewhere? The article is awfully close to being an orphan. Ambi 12:55, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

{{mergefrom}} [[Culture of Tajikistan]]

[edit] more info website

More info about Tajikistan on http://www.avesta.tj//

[edit] Persian/Iranian Wikipedians

Please stay away from this article, let someone neutral edit it! 218.250.195.234 10:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Is that really a neutral comment? Eliethesame 07:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Correct English Spelling for Tajikistan

I added the section "Correct English Spelling for Tajikistan." It may seem irrelevant, but the incorrect usage of Tadjikistan and Tadzhikistan in English is rampant. I'm right now cleaning up more than 50 wikipedia pages that incorrectly use these spellings and there are 100,000s of incorrect usages spotted in a simple google search. I think it's important to keep this section because it explains why Tadjikistan and Tadzhikistan are incorrect. davestraub 05:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photograph

Hey, I've added a photograph, I was browsing google images for "geography of the soviet union" and came accross this one, I think it is quite nice and the author allowed it to be licensed under the GFDL. If you disagree feel free to remove it. - FrancisTyers 03:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish references

There appear to be a lot of references to what basically amounts to the handful of Jews in the country in this article. They also appear to be from the same editor. Does anyone else think that most of these references (probably all except the ~600BC one and note of the small current population in culture) are irrelevant? -Drdisque 16:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Tajikistan is an outstanding article---it is a brief, concise and very well written. I very much understand the tendency to maintain brevity and focus. However, I would argue that the Jewish references are appropriate where they occur. Jews are one of the longest-standing ethnic populations in Central Asia, and have historically been concentrated in what is now Tajikistan, spoke Tajik, contributed to culture and commerce, etc, etc. Very unfortunately, this minority was subject to a great deal of antisemitism over the years (some of which was violent) and the population diminished to a very great degree during the soviet years, during the civil war and one could argue even today under the secular administration. The history of the Jews is part of the legacy of Tajikistan. I would say the references could be left in. That being said, I think they could be improved for accuracy and conciseness without lengthening or eliminating. elizmr 17:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Please cite cases of the "great deal of antisemitism" including "violent". Also: Jewish population increased during the "soviet years" due to inflow of Ashkenazi Jews from the European part of the USSR. In addition, please explain specifically why three out of four paragraphs in the section describing the history of Tajikistan must include references to only one, and quite minor, ethnic group of all the dozens of ethnic groups residing in Tajikistan. Lotvas 20:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Lotvas, It sounds like my comments might have insulted you. I apologize. I am working in good faith here and never said "must" about inclusion of anything. Here are my points: 1) I understand that Jews are a minor group currently in terms of numbers, but by virtue of the fact that they have a very long-standing history in the area they are not minor in terms of being an ethnic group. 2) The antisemitism of the soviet union, violent and otherwise, is very well documented elsewhere. Tajikistan was part of the soviet union for many years. 3) In reference to post-soviet times, I have read that in 1995 Dushanbe synagogue and Jewish homes were vandalized; I would categorize this as a violent act. 3) If the Jewish pop increased during the Soviet Years due to influx of Ashkenazi Jews from the European part of the USSR and the article suggests differently this should be corrected. I will go in and do that now. I would not consider these Ashkenazic Jews an important part of the historical ethnicity of Tajikistan and would not think that such a brief and concise article should refer to this group at all. elizmr 21:09, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

There was no insult at all. I based my questions on a reasonable test of truth and relevance. I still do not see a reason for consistent spotlight on "Jews" (which you seem to define as Bukharian Jews in this article - in which case your additions to the article should have elaborated to that effect) in the section on the history of Tajikistan. The claim of a "long-standing history" is not nearly as unique to Jews as your references to them in the article. Many other ethinic groups have lived in Tajikistan for as long or longer than Bukharian Jews. A special focus on Jews without regard for other ethnic groups miscommunicates the history of Tajikistan and reduces the value of the article. Unless you can provide evidence of specific unique contributions to Tajikistan (such as contributions of the Russian ethnic group, for example) by the Jewish community that warrant the focus in the article they currently enjoy, I believe the focus should be removed.
As for antisemitism, it does not follow from stating that there was antisemitism in the Soviet Union that there was antisemitism in Tajikistan, especially violent antisemitism. The Soviet Union was a gigantic and extremely diverse country and any claims of violent antisemitism in a place as remote geographically and culturally from known incidents must cite sources or be removed. Antisemitism is quite substantial and identifiable immoral behavior so accusations of antisemitism must not be dispensed lightly and without evidence. This is an article about a whole country in an encyclopedia consulted by millions of people. Therefore, editors should make any accusatory statements responsibly and justifiably. Lotvas 21:51, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Lotvas, your points are well taken. I suggest we go through the Jewish references in the article one by one: 1) History: A small community of Jews, displaced from the Middle East after the Babylonian captivity, migrated to the region and settled there after 600 BC. 2) History: The Bolsheviks would prevail after a four year war, in which mosques and villages were burned down and the population heavily suppressed. Jews and Judaism were heavily persecuted during this time as well. 3) History: The Jewish population further diminished during this time (civil war), due to persecution. 4) Demographics: Bukharan Jews had lived in Tajikistan since the 2nd century BC, but today only several hundred, mostly poor and elderly, remain; most of the other Jews fled to Israel or sought and usually obtained asylum in the USA, and possibly Canada. 5) Culture: Tajikistan is home to a dwindling and mostly elderly Jewish community; their only synagogue as well as their ritual bathhouse, kosher butchery, and classroom were demolished in early 2006 to clear the land for a presidential residence.

I am a Bukharian Jew from Tajikistan and I could tell you that there was alot of anti-semitism. There weren't alot of Jews so we had to stick together. In 1992, my family and I moved to New York, and some to Israel. In the 1930's-1940's, Ashkenazi Jews fled to Central Asian countries to escape the holocaust.

Suggestions: 1) propose leave it as suggested in the first comment in this section by another editor 2) question: Did the Bolsheviks burn down mosques and leave synagogues and churches unassaulted? Propose: change "mosques" to "religious sites" to make the sentence more descriptive of what happened? 3) Would take this very general sentence out for the reasons that Lotvas suggests. 4) I think that a demographics section should make reference to Jews in some way since they were a historical presence and are now an "endangered species". How about tightening it up as follows: "of the historically large Bukharan Jewish population centered in Dunshanbe, only several hundred remain. An active link should be created to article about this population. 5) This is too long for the section. How about changing to, "The last synagogue in Tajikistan was demolished by the government in 2006 to clear the land for a presidential residence" An active link should be created to the article about this synagogue. elizmr 23:58, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linguistics

Someone edited the culture section's text on linguistics to take out refererences to loanwords as such and changed "Persian Language" to "Dari". The Persian language page mentions Dari and seems more complete, and the referral to loanwords from Russian and Arabic was helpful from a linguistic point of view (ie--loanword=word taken from another language in more or less the other languages form rather than importing a new meaning into an original language by using the original language's words). I'm not sure why this was taken out, but it might make the article less informative and helpful to readers interested in linguistics. elizmr 17:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Germans in Tajikistan

Who know anything about Germans in Tajikistan? I know a lot of about Germans in Russia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. But I dont´t know anything about German population in Tajikistan! Please help! I would like to know all about them! Simon Mayer

[edit] Repository of images

Greetings,

I have made an Asian repository of images, similar to the one that exists for Europe. Please complete the part pertaining to this country as you see fit, preferably similar to those of France, Britain et al:

Wikipedia:List of images/Places/Asia

Thanx.--Zereshk 14:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] We should also add the name in Arabic/Farsi script

Tajikistan is making a transition back to Arabic/Farsi script, and so we should add the country's name in Arabic/Farsi script as well. I dont know Arabic script, but who ever does, please make that important adjustment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tajik-afghan (talk • contribs) 08:46, 25 July 2006

No it isn't. There were plans to, but it has stalled. - FrancisTyers · 09:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

See this article from 2002. It is written from a pro-Perso-arabic position, but is quite informative.

Many optimists in the 1990s believed that the Arabic alphabet would make a comeback to Tajikistan in some ten or fifteen years ... Even now there appear from time to time articles by prominent figures flatly opposing the adoption of the Arabic alphabet. For example, Bozor Sobir, a notable Tajik poet who has stayed in the USA for the past eight years, has recently written that it would be a great mistake of the Tajiks to adopt the Arabic alphabet as it is very difficult and not everyone can master it. In the early 1990s, though, such protests were disregarded, and the Arabic alphabet was being gradually introduced into schools along with Persian that was taught as a special discipline. Books by Tajik and Iranian authors using the Tajik Arabic alphabet came to be printed ... In 1992 and in the years that followed, when opposition led by the Islamic Party of Revival was forced to emigrate from Tajikistan, the introduction of the Arabic alphabet slowed down ... The Arabic alphabet, too, began to disappear from billboards, announcements, street signs and magazines. In 1999, a parliament session, on the initiative of the deputies, removed the word “Farsi” from the name of the law on the state language.

- FrancisTyers · 09:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it makes sense to add the Perso-Arabic script name because it is the historical script used in the region. For 1000 years this was how Tajik was written, and it wasn't replaced until the 1920s. The earliest writers of modern Tajik in the 20th century would have used the script. It doesn't matter whether or not it will come back into common use; it's a script of historical and cultural significance. Besides, Tajik, Dari and Persian and Persian speakers can communicate together like Swedes, Norweigians and the Dutch. It's practically the same lanuage.
Its like having the Old English name of England on the England article. Unnecessary. It can go in the Naming section if at all. - FrancisTyers · 12:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be a diaster when Tajikistan begins to uses the Arabic script. Arabic-script is not suitabl;e for the Iranian languages such as Tajik, Kurdish etc... and as I have alsways said even it is not suiatble for Persian. This script has corrupted so many Persian words in pronounciation. Babakexorramdin 11:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Karotegin and the RRS

I removed reference to the Karotegin as a province. That's just incorrect. The areas is the RRS, also called the Region of Republican Subordination. There is no article currently written for the RRS, and I think a discussion on the proper title of that article needs to take place before a name for the article is decided. I think "Region of Republican Subordination (Tajikistan)" would be appropriate, but maybe someone else wants someone different like "Region of Republican Subordination (Province of Tajikistan)" or something like that. The map that should be used on the RRS page is:

The provinces of Tajikistan with Region of Republican Subordination marked
The provinces of Tajikistan with Region of Republican Subordination marked

.

So what does everyone think? --David Straub 20:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italics in Cyrillics

A guideline on whether or not to italicize Cyrillics (and all scripts other than Latin) is being debated at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (text formatting)#Italics in Cyrillic and Greek characters. - - Evv 16:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Andonis Petanski

...In the 19th century, the Russian Empire led by Andonis Petanski began to spread into...

Who is this Andonis Petanski fellow? I have never heard of him and doing a search on google only loops back to this article or its clones. Searching on yandex.ru (in russian) yields nothing.

Perhaps consider changing to Alexander II (1855 - 1881) ?


[edit] Tajikistan map

I'm being bold here, so please bear with me. I noticed that the original CIA Factbook map of Tajikistan had been replaced with a new map.

While I agree with the idea that we should improve on maps, I believe the original map is a better one for people who wish to learn about Tajikistan, for two reasons:

1) in the original map, Tajikistan fills the image. In the newer map, Tajikistan is a *tiny* blob.

2) in the original map, Tajikistan's major cities are shown. In the newer map, Tajikistan is a solid green blob. There are no features, cities, or anything else marked.

I realize that changing the map back to the older version may be controversial, so I would like to ask that people discuss improvements to the original map (which is a public domain image) that serve to show not only Tajikistan's position relative to other countries, but also show the details of the country itself. Please post your thoughts here. --Zippy 03:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resource Allocation

What resources does Tajikistan possess? For example, is there the possibility that there are metal ores, coal deposits, etc... in Tajikistan? Errrr, any oil? The introductory paragraph sound ominous with its brash statement that : "although an observer has characterized the country as having few natural resources besides hydroelectric power and its strategic location.[1]" Unless the observer were a professor, or someone equally quallified to make such an assessment, I would be very dubious about that statement....

--Renalcat 19:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Updated picture for the Politics section.

In the politics section I updloaded a new picture of Rahmanov and removed the old one with Ahmadinejad. If you like the old one better, then you can revert it. But I think this one is better because it is newer and has a nice background of the mountains. Behnam 02:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Emomali Rahmonov 2006.jpg
Tajikistan's president Emomali Rahmonov.)
Image:Ahmadinejad in Tajikistan.jpg
Tajikistan's president Emomali Rahmonov(r) and Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad(l) meeting at a trilateral panel, along with Afghanistan, to improve relations among the Persian speaking nations (in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, July 2006).

[edit] Map reinsertion

The ethnocgraphic distribution map is referenced from a source of usually accepted knowledge. Hence removal as "This map is wrong" should be a) referenced by sources of equivalent or better standing and b) should result in replacement with a better referenced map rather than none. Ethnic distribution in contentious areas is always a matter of dispute - here and everywhere - so Wikipedia should at least try and prodfuce referenced material rather than opinion or claims or personal knowledge. Refdoc 10:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Language

Tajiki is a dialect of Persian. Tajiki is not a seperate language. The language section should say Persian not Tajiki.Dariush4444 20:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I take it you haven't read the State Language Law recently. - Francis Tyers · 20:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Tajik people themselves call their language, "Farsi" (Persian). That is the same as in Iran, Afghanistan, other parts of Central Asia, The Caucauses, and the Persian Gulf. We all understand each other because we speak the SAME language. The name, "Tajik" is more of a national term referring to the country not their culture or language. Dariush4444 18:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like you don't talk to many Tajiks. - Francis Tyers · 10:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Whether or not linguistics professors consider Tajik and Persian to be the same language, the people I have met in Tajikistan will tell you explicitly that they do not speak Farsi, but rather they speak Tajik. Brybry26 (talk) 00:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, the country is in "Russian speaking regions" category. Why not "Persian speaking regions"? Is some nostalgia after the Soviet Union present here?

Most of the people understand Russian language there - that's why it's included in this category. Feel free to add Tajikistan to "Persian speaking regions" also. Nobody would argue with that. Alaexis 17:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Do Americans speak English or American? so as people in Tajikistan they speak Persian....... 195.146.46.15 13:41, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tajikistan (alternately Tajikistan),

the first few words of the article. Now, are my eyes deceiving me or are those two words identical? Is it just me...... 70.187.219.134 19:06, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling Errors

As I read through this article, I noticed repeatedly that the name of the country is spelled wrong. Some people continuously are spelling "Tajikistan" "Tajikstan". Of course, it is a common mistake to forget the letter "I" but it is occurring over and over again. The name of the article is "Tajikistan" so if you need to remember how to spell it, look at the title! Just a friendly reminder. I may change a few of the "Tajikistan" spelling errors but not all because I may not see all of the errors. Try and fix the errors as you write and edit some of the article. Thank you for taking the time and reading my complaint/friendly reminder.

Loghead1 20:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samarkand

[edit] Uzbekistan

The famous cities of Afrasiab, Bukhara, Samarkand, Shahrisabz, Andijan, Khiveh, Khujand, Navā'i, Shirin, Termez, and Zar-afshan are located here. Many experts point to these cities as the birthplace of modern Persian language. The Samanids, who claimed inheritance to the Sassanids, had their capital built here. From the Greater Iran article.

This part says Uzbekistan was home of the Samanid empire while this Tajikistan article claims that their capital lies in Tajikistan. Can anyone explain it? Mallerd 14:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Their capital was Bukhara (now in Uzbekistan). This article doesn't seem to be contradicting it. Jahāngard 16:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok, the article about the Samanid empire says they had 3 capitals including Bokhara and Samarkand, but it still needs citation. Still confusing in my opinion Mallerd 18:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
This article doesn't say that Samanids' capital was in present-day Tajikistan. Neither of the three cities mentioned in Samanid Empire article is there, actually. Alæxis¿question? 19:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
If none of those cities are in present-day Tajikistan why is Samarkand mentioned in this article then? I admit I don't know much about the Samanid empire and it only brings confusion in my opinion, since I see the that the reference to Samarkand implies that it is in Tajikistan. Mallerd 09:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Alæxis¿question? 09:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
You can discuss it more and more, but Uzbak nation appeared just a few centuries ago, now they consider Temurlan as their national hero, but Temur is known as..If USSR did not divide people by languages, current republics like stans did not exist. And Bukhara and Samarkand could remain as Persian, Tajik, Dari speaking capitals in the region and they will remain for centuries to come as long as the so called people will not be forced to move to Turkic speaking regions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.140.128.203 (talk) 06:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drug trafficking

Drug trafficking - this sections need to be removed or updated, as much attention is paid to this problem recently. Tajikistan is the leading country fighting against drug trafficking, and what about other neighboring republics. FACTS AND FIGURES —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.140.128.203 (talk) 06:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The neighbouring countries argument is irrelevant. If you believe that this problem there is of similar scale then you should find references and write about it in those articles.
If something has really changed then this info should be added to this section. Alæxis¿question? 06:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I've added the amount of confiscated drugs. Alæxis¿question? 07:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Provided references prove the significance of this, so to say, sector of economy. If someone think it should be moved somewhere else in the article, moved elsewhere or otherwise changed please propose it first here. Alæxis¿question? 06:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

While drug trafficking, no doubt (& regrettably), is a source of income of Tajikistan, it is definitely not the main source of income, at least since mid-2000s. It is unfortunate that Wikipedia misses the fact that one of the main sources of Tajikistan's income, as a state, and the main source of income of Tajiks, as a people, is remittances from more than a million of Tajik labor migrants to Russia.

I can provide you with hundreds of links to studies suggesting that up to additional 50% of Tajikistan's official GDP figure has been directly reaching Tajik households and how poverty has significantly decreased simply thanks to effecient utilization of Tajikistan's comparative advantage of cheap labor. Here is the IMF surprise study http://www.microfinancegateway.org/files/35717_file_04.pdf Tajikisitan "has addressed so well the hurdles of transition from a planned to a market economy" and this was achieved "without substantial and protracted recourse to aid (of which it by now receives only negligible amounts), and by purely market-based means, simply by exporting its main commodity of comparative advantage—cheap labor" end of quote.

Also, link [4] Silk Road Studies is inconsistent mentioning "Drug trafficking is one of the major sources of income in Tajikistan" as it does not rely on any statistical source. So this phrase cannot be used as a footnote for Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Behruzhimo (talk • contribs) 15:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Nobody claims it's the main source of income. It's one of them, though.
I agree fully that remittances are very important for Tajikistani economy. Feel free to add this information to the article. You could also include other info about Tajikistani economy as long as it's backed by the reliable sources (like the IMF study you've mentioned). Alæxis¿question? 17:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


Alaexis, I have updated some information on drug trafficking and the economy (such as hydroelectric power station projects, labor remmittances). I provided the sources, though I proved to be not that good at the presentation. Some sources are in Russian. I hope you will agree on my additions/updates and won't delete them. By the way, thanks for your efforts in presenting Tajikistan in Wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Behruzhimo (talk • contribs) 15:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your contribution :)
ps. Take a look at my last edits, you'll get a clue of how to make everything look pretty. Alæxis¿question? 17:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categorize Tajikistan

I have noticed that the article Tajikistan is categorized in Category:Subdivisions of Tajikistan and also in Category:Tajikistan. It is very awkward to find the page for Tajikistan listed among its oblasts and districts in Category:Subdivisions of Tajikistan. This category should be removed from the Tajikistan page, but unfortunately I cannot find a line for Category:Subdivisions of Tajikistan when editing the Tajikistan page. Will someone please delete this category from the Tajikistan page (and if possible also tell me why I could not see it)? --Zlerman (talk) 16:18, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

This is because the articles that use this template are automatically included in the 'Subdivisions of Tajikistan' category. Alæxis¿question? 18:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for this important explanation. Perhaps we should remove this template from Tajikistan's "geographic locale" keeping only the relevant categories Countries of Central Asia and Countries of Asia (as, e.g., for Uzbekistan). Do you agree with the proposal? If yes, I can try to remove the inappropriate template (unless you prefer to do it yourself). --Zlerman (talk) 02:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tajik and Persian

In Tajikistan editors are going back and forth between "Persian", "Tajik", "Tajik-Persian", etc., with reference to Tajik language. Moreover, the changes are made locally, in one paragraph, without attention to consistency with the terminology in other paragraphs and other Tajikistan-related articles. Would someone authoritative please straighten this out once and for all? For consistency sake, the process should also include other Tajikistan-related articles, such as Tajik language, History of Tajikistan, etc. The check for consistency should include a decision about the demonym in the country infotable and elsewhere: "Tajikistani" or "Tajik" (as after the latest editorial change) or perhaps both?

In the same context, I would like to appeal to Russian-speaking Tajik editors to look at Talk:Tajikistan on Russian Wikipedia. A recent change in the Russian article on Tajikistan characterized Tajikistan as an "Iranian state". I think this change needs to be discussed by competent editors before it is accepted as final.--Zlerman (talk) 02:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3,000 Metres

My data disagrees. Does anyone else have data that half the country is over 3,000 metres? Tipi Tiki (talk) 16:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Could you please tell us what your data say and what the source of the data is. Then I will try to find supporting evidence either for your data or for the data in the current version of the article. Hopefully we will be able to resolve the difficulty in this way. --Zlerman (talk) 17:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)