Talk:Tagalog language

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[edit] VERY Unlikely borrowings

I removed very, very unlikely borrowings in the "borrowings" chart. Let's get one thing straight the following are rarely, rarely borrowed:

  • Pronouns - Tayo is NOT borrow from the other languages of Luzon.
  • Conjuctions - Give me several examples where function words like conjunctions are borrowed? And, I mean several, i.e. more than say... 7.
  • Huwag (!!!) - lexical items such as this are very, very doubtful.

All the above a FUNCTION words.

Somehow, certain persons are mistaking borrowings and cognates. They see a cognate and immediately think that their language is the origin, when they are half wrong. BOTH Tagalog and Malay derive from a common Proto-Austronesian. The person, who keeps saying that Tagalog is derived from Malay is incorrect, full stop or period. And, they keep insisting that particular lexical items are in fact derived from Malay. Those lexical items I fail to see the "derivation", I have removed. Those that are plausible, have remained intact until they can be verified. Otherwise, STENT.

Joemaza 20:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Joe, I'm going to address your concerns.
The use of TAYO is limited to languages spoken in Luzon. Tagalog is a Central Philippine language where KITA is normally used. My source is Dr. David Zorc. I'll look for the full citation (it's been a while). This also goes for a number of Tagalog's words, many of which were borrowed from Kapampangan.
Conjunctions. Tagalog and other Philippine languages has borrowed a lot of conjunctions from Spanish - o, porke, para, pues, ni, hasta, mientrastanto, etc.
The "huwag" part I'll remove. I think I may have gotten it from the Zorc source, but I'm not sure.
But yes, Tagalog did borrow a lot of Malay words while many are obviously cognate; the problem is sorting between the two. The ones I listed are from Dr. John U. Wolff's 1976Malay borrowings in Tagalog. I'm reverting your removals for now, and I'll be putting in the citation for the Zorc one as soon as I find it. --Chris S. 02:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Aha. I found the Zorc reference: The Prehistory and Origin of the Tagalog People, 1993. The complete list:
borrowed from Southern Luzon
bibig "mouth"
tae "tomorrow"
butó "bone"
daándodoúlat "surprise"
ilán "how many"
kailán "when"
kayó "you (plural)"
lamán "contents" (but note Bikol lamán "flesh")
loób "inside"

borrowed from Kapampangan
akyát "climb"
at "and"
babà "chin"
bakít "why" (but note Bikol Daet bakin, and Bikol,
Bisayan bukun ~ b«k«n)
bundók "mountain"
dagdág "add" (but note Bikol dagdag)
damdám "feel"
gúyam "ants"
íbon "bird"
kapatíd "sibling"
katawan "body" (OTag kataw-an)
páwis "sweat"
tuyô "dry"

borrowed from South Luzon via Kapampangan
alípin "slave" (cognate with Bikol oripon)
apóy "fire"
áso "dog"
baitáng "steps, stairs"
balat "skin"
darás "adze"
galáw "move"
ígat "eel"dfhyueduighuysdn lúban "sheath"
kúlam "witchcraft"
táyo "we"
úlap "cloud"
usok "smoke"

borrowed from Malay (from Wolff 1976)
binibini "miss"
buntót "tail"
kánan "right"
káya "able"
kúlay "color"
súlat "write"
tanghalì "noon"

borrowed from Sanskrit via Malay (from Wolff 1976)
ása "hope"
bása "read"
bathalà "god"
gandá "beauty"
hinà "weak"

borrowed from Persian via Malay (from Wolff 1976)
álak "wine, liquor"
barò "clothing"

borrowed from Tamil via Malay (from Wolff 1976)
bilanggô "prisoner"
bágay "thing"

borrowed from Arabic via Malay (from Wolff 1976)
akála "think"
hukóm "judge"

--Chris S. 02:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL. Good man! Way to take a challenge. I trust your research. Thanks for following up. Once again, you're doing a great job. BTW, can you take a look at the Iloko stuff? Thanks. Joemaza (talk) 01:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Couldn't help but comment that there is a word in Tagalog which doesn't seem to come from Spanish but is a cognate with latin which bulla(bubble).Ako maybe a cognate of ego(I). Also tata is an old/ancient latin meaning father(similar to Tatay). Cognates of sabon(soap) are found in the languages of India/Hindi (and regional languages), Indonesia(Sebun), Arabic, Persian, and Malay. --Jondel (talk) 08:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lists: Needed or not?

The excessive lists and otherwise trivial content in the "Examples" and "Learning resources" sections do not really seem necessary. However, it would be a rather sweeping change to remove all of them, so I am looking for thoughts as to what parts are useful and which should be removed. Thanks, Kakofonous (talk) 22:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I opine that lists which flout WP:V should be removed. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
If you don't object, I think I'll remove "The Lord's Prayer (Ama Namin)", "Common phrases", "Proverbs", and "Learning Resources". They don't really seem useful. --Kakofonous (talk) 00:27, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ABOUT tagalog words

I just want to say that the word KARMA is an international word. And should not even be put in the list of words that tagalog took from tamil since most people in other countries also know and use the word Karma at times. That word KARMA is more english to other people. Also, why is there a list of these stuff on here when you don't even see other language pages with list of words that were borrowed from other countries?! I think you should take that out. It's pretty stupid to put that list up when it's not even needed.

It's a derived word from Sanskrit, NOT Tamil. So, if you're going to BOLD your post, make sure you come correct. Otherwise you look obnoxious. In addition, if you have enough gall, then claim your post.

On the contrary, regarding loan words, it's OK. Look around the Wikipedia, you'll find a list of loans listed for some of the articles. So, your argument is quite moot. Joemaza (talk) 01:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)