Talk:Syndicalism

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Is there a difference between syndicalism and anarcho-syndicalism? -- Sam

In the Oxford English Dictionary (full version, 2nd edition), the word "anarcho-syndicalism" is actually defined as "syndicalism". That is the entirety of the definition, the single word "syndicalism"! Of course, dictionaries are not always right, and never as good on politics as encyclopaedias. Nonethelessness, the short answer would be that many people probably see no distinction between "syndicalism" and "anarcho-syndicalism" and if there is a distinction, it's not yet clear from these articles what it is. In French, the word "syndicaliste" means ANY trade union member (from "syndicat", meaning trade union) - but this doesn't tell us anything about the meanings of the English words. --86.134.55.239 11:43, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
There is, yeah :) It's a strategy, more than anything. The anarcho- prefix is simply a variation of the strategy and, in some ways, a declaration of a different aim (although communism is probably the ultimate aim of most syndicalists, anarcho- or not). -- Sam
I don't know what I've gotten it from, but I have seen syndicalism as a method more than anything else. Wasn't the syndicalist movement from the beginning trade unions which had the goal to have unions for the whole working class, independent of political parties? Anarcho-syndicalism is a combination of the anarchistic ideals with the syndicalistic strategy. Davidw 09:14, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The Encyclopedia Britannica lumps all three together, regular syndicalism, anarcho- and revolutionary. I am following their lead.WHEELER 16:07, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

There is a seperate Anarcho-syndicalism article, and I think the distinction must be made here as well. In 19th century Europe the distinction was indeed important; French syndicalists (trade unionists) had much more mild ideas than Spanish anarcho-syndicalists. --Tothebarricades.tk 20:46, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Okay, I removed the anarcho-syndicalist stuff from this page and moved it to Anarcho-syndicalism (without repeat information, of course). This page needs to be fleshed out, though. I think listing syndicalists here is inappropriate for some reason but I don't know whether to create List of syndicalists... --Tothebarricades.tk 21:10, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Trough what I've heard, anarcho-syndicalism is used in France, for able them to differentiate it from ordinary unionism. Anyone else heard this? 23:06, 18 May 2005 UTC

The French word syndicat means "union." If I were writing in French, I suppose I'd use some term like revolutionary syndicalism or anarcho-syndicalism to mean what we usually call "syndicalism" in English-speaking countries. Tribune 09:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


Syndicalism was/is an umbrella term for a number of movements inspired, but not similar, to each other. At one point there were 7 different (possibly more) varieties of syndicalism I've identified:

1) Classic syndicalism (pre-1920s) - a radical unionism as practiced by the pre-1920s CGT in France, [Tom Mann] his groups in the British Empire and [Wm Z. Foster]'s Syndicalist groups in Canada and the US. Almost all of these forces were absorbed into the Bolshevik 3rd International. Others went right and helped start the fascist (not nazi) movements in the Latin countries, egNational Syndicalists.

2) The Socialist Labor Party (Australia, Canada, NZ, South Africa, UK and US) under the theory of Daniel DeLeon, the american-carribian marxist. Sought syndicalist unions but under the watch of a political party.

3) The IWW (Argentina, Aus, Canada, Chile, Equador, Germany, Mexico, NZ, RSA, Scanda, UK, US) Which is international (rather than national like the classic syndicalists) and takes no stand regards to poltical/parlimentarian activity (as distinct from anarcho-syndicalists and SLP)

4) Revolutionary syndicalism is similiar to the IWW but is organized on national basis - eg. the SAC in Sweden.

5) Anarcho-syndicalism arose primarilly in Latin Countries especially when opposing bolshevikization of classic syndicalism and parlimentarian action. Organized on national basis.

6) The One Big Union (Aus, Canada and the US) Kind of a cross between the SLP syndicalism and the IWW. The OBU was international, and militant like the IWW but was loosely tied to a political party (Socialist Party of Canada) in Canada where the OBU originated. The OBU was libertarian socialist and opposed the bolshevization of the labor movement.

7) Red Feds in New Zealand, i don't have much info on them.

I'm sure there's also other variants, especially in the latin countries (eg Peronism in Argentina)

Tsiatko 19:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] 1936 is bad enough! What's this about 1956?

I am removing the boldfaced citation here, because it seems to be the product of wishful thinking: "Instances of syndicalism in power, during the Spanish Revolution or the 1956 Hungarian Revolution rapidly approach the economic organisation of communism, often within weeks of syndicalists seizing control of social production." The claim about Spain presupposes knowledge of the "economic organization of communism" which, if true, would belong in the relevant articles (and totally rewrite the 20th Century history of Spain). The CNT's entry into the bourgeois/Communist/Popular Front government put them in power alongside Stalin's "Communist" Party, and to the same effect; the contrary myth doesn't belong in wikipedia. The claim about 1956 Hungary is just plain weird. Tribune 09:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Syndicalism = Fascism

Mussolini was a syndicalist, and also a fascist. So isn't a syndicalist a fascist? See Socialism by Ludwig von Mises on this. (no, I'm not saying Hitler was a syndicalist or a fascist) - MSTCrow 21:17, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

A dog is a canine, and also a pet. But a pet isn't the same as a canine. There is an article on national syndicalism, which is the Mussolini variant of syndicalism. -82.203.170.148 11:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chomsky

The article has Chomsky as a syndicalist. Is he? BobFromBrockley 14:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

He has expressed sympathy for anarchosyndicalism many times, but I believe he usually shies away from actually calling himself anything in particular. I remember seeing some video where he said things like "for the most part..." "in many ways..." and "pretty much..." when asked whether he considered himself an anarchist. Most people lump him in to either the anarchist or syndicalist camp. Also, there's a little pamphlet book of his lectures called "Government in the Future," where Chomsky argues that there are four kinds of societies in the modern world: Classical Liberal, Libertarian Socialist (anarchist), State Socialist, and State Capitalist. Basically, he thinks the third and fourth stink, and the second is the natural continuation of the first, and for him, the best one.72.78.20.31 (talk) 09:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criminal syndicalism

There is now a crime called "criminal syndicalism." Criminal syndicalism makes it a crime to advocate sabotage, violence or terrorism to accomplish industrial or political reform...and is punishable by up to six years in prison. That might make preaching the Bible, vis a vis homosexuals, the killing of homosexuals a crime as in Leviticus. Let's see the government put this to the test on this issue.

[edit] Criticisms section

This sentence does not follow English grammar: "A common question is the relationship that will exist between unions."

What are "state-level decisions"? Jacob Haller 17:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. But then I'm the author! By "State-level decisions", I mean for example who decides in a Syndicalist society when the country goes to war, or when we invest 50 billion in a Channel Tunnel, or how much is paid for benefits, etc. Toby Douglass 06:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political criticisms

Syndicalism encompasses, among other ideologies, anarcho-syndicalism, and in most discussions revolutionary industrial unionism, guild socialism, etc. Anarcho-syndicalism sometimes refers to only anarcho-communist unionism and sometimes to all anarchist unionism (e.g. Dyer Lum's or Joe Labadie's).

Suffice to say that the political problems of guild socialism are very different from the political problems of different forms of anarchism. In the latter, "state-level" may not be the best term. A related question concerns single-union and dual-union syndicalism. Jacob Haller 18:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Economic criticisms

I'm not sure where to go here. Much depends on political issues - who decides? how many unions are there? how do the unions cooperate? It's not uncommon to regard collectivist anarchism as market trade among communities, non-market within them, and you can probably find sources for similar interpretations of syndicalism (e.g. Jack London's essay on scabs, and his Iron Heel, Marxist criticisms, etc. Also Austrian criticisms, although Mises uses the word syndicalism to describe worker-ownership in general), as well as communist interpretations of syndicalism.

After doing that, you may be able to "fork" syndicalism into non-market versions and market (or equivalent conditional-reciprocal exchange) versions, and address one set of criticisms to each.

Another approach is to start with the concerns that may "fork" syndicalism at the top of the criticisms section; then discuss economic and political criticisms of non-market versions; then discuss economic and political criticisms of market versions. Jacob Haller 18:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputable|date since August 2007

I removed the disputed listing of Georges Sorel philosopher, please do not re-insert without a citation.--BirgitteSB 15:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)