Talk:Suzuki Cultus

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[edit] Geo Metro, Chevrolet Sprint, Pontiac Firefly Merge

I have begun integrating the Geo Metro, Chevrolet Sprint and Pontiac Firefly articles into the Suzuki Cultus article. The early sections of the Suzuki Swift article belong under the Cultus, as well. Discuss. 842U (talk) 03:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


[edit] The Rewrite and Merge

The way it was rewritten, it's now implied the car was sold as the Suzuki Forsa in Japan. It wasn't, it was a Cultus right from 1983, when it was introduced (not 1985). Then, calling the car is called a subcompact in the introductory paragraph, when it's about a Japanese domestic model. And then there was the addition of gigantic bulleted lists about the Geo/Chevrolet Metro, which so far has it's own article. There's nothing in the intro about the Cultus Crescent (Esteem) anymore, and a line about the Indian-built Maruti 1000 was switched from the Cultus proper to the Cultus Crescent (which is wrong, the Suzuki Esteem never had a 1.0L engine in any market). If these problems are not addressed, I'm simply going to revert the latest changes. --Pc13 (talk) 23:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Pc13. I appreciate your feedback. I'm sure there are' mistakes, so please help in pointing them out or correcting them. There were huge gaps in logic in the original Cultus article... and since it was virtually unreferenced, there will be mistakes. Again, I appreciate your eye and your feedback. Please bear with me... if this doesn't work we can go back.
You will notice that there have been off and on MERGE discussions with the Chevrolet Sprint, Pontiac Firefly and Geo Metro.
The idea here is to bring the article into conformance with the Wikipedia Automobiles Project, where the article would come to resemble the Daewoo Kalos article, to which the Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac Wave etc. links lead. In other words, there is no Chevrolet Aveo or Pontiac Wave article... they are incorporated into the Kalos article. The idea is also that there won't be a Geo Metro or Firefly article anymore: the intention is that the article will be from the perspective of the original country of origin... not from the Geo Metro's country of origin, for example... or the Holden Barina's country of origin, for example. And the idea is that the Cultus Crescent will have its own article, shared with the Baleno, Esteem article.
The "giant bullited list" you refer to is from the GM M platform... which is highly related in understanding the Cultus as a whole.
The Cultus Crescent has been restored to the introduction with links to its section of the article. I'm not positive I see where you see a "Maruti" mistake.
I'm sure there are some other mistakes, so please, by all means help out. I have tried to correct the problems you pointed out... let me know if you see anything else. 842U (talk) 02:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
You were probably confused with the use of the Esteem name. The Maruti Esteem was not the Suzuki Esteem, it was the Suzuki Swift Sedan. The Indian market Esteem (Cultus Crescent) was called Baleno, just like in Europe. As for merging everything into the Cultus article, as was done with the Daewoo models, it won't be easy. The Swift name, for example, is now used in Japan as well, and a previous Japanese market Swift was sold in Europe as the Ignis, which was developed for the European market first. And then there's the problem whether the Cultus Crescent (later just Cultus) should have its own article. --Pc13 (talk) 12:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you clarifying that. It sounds like you might really understand some of the nuances here -- I'll have to do more homework. Could you please look at the Suzuki Swift article and tell me what you think about the accuracy of that article... particularly the generation names, the original name of the car.
It seems that the Cultus itself spawned a wide group of nameplate variations, but essentially the core vehicles, the core body styles, manufactured then in Japan, CAMI, Hungary etc. Nameplate divergances such as the Canadian Swift+ model, the current Japanese and European Swift models, and the Cultus Crescent (later just Cultus again) present vexing but I think solvable issues.
Also, what would you think of moving "manufacting" to after "overview"?
I added a NOTES column to the 'manufacting table' and changed Geo Metro to North America vs. USA; I believe that's correct.
Again, thanks for helping keep the article accurate. 842U (talk) 13:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The Swift seems to have been written from an American perspective with bits of other markets later shoehorned in. Right now it's a mess and should probably be rewritten from perspectives for North America, Europe, India and Australia. If the 1995 "MK3.5" is different from the Japanese platform (which continued in other markets up to 2007), it might require a section of its own. I think we should skip the MK1/2/3 designations and use the internal Suzuki codes to differentiate between different generations.
As for the Cultus article, I'd suggest having a section for manufacturing and another for the nameplates, skip the overview section and then separate the different generations. I took most of the Japanese market information from an official Suzuki history website, in Japanese, which is what's at the head of the "overview" section now. I'm still unsure how best to incorporate the export model infos in here. As far as I'm aware there are only two generations proper, so once more, the "MK1/2/3" sections need to go.
And the Cultus Crescent could have its own article, if we merge the Suzuki Esteem into it. --Pc13 (talk) 13:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The Pontiac Firefly, Geo Metro and Chevrolet Sprint models have now been redirected here.

I understand the Generation issue, and see how messy the Swift "generations" are denoted. What is currently refered to as Generation III was North American only.

Would the current generation of the Swift be considered as separate completely, as in, not Cultus related?

I'm thinking the smart way to handle the Swift may be to keep a separate article with clear redirects here where there is overlap.... much as the Holden Barina will need to keep. 842U (talk) 14:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations and thanks, 842U, for taking up the sisyphean task of merging the Cultus back into one. The article surely needs an immense amount of work, and I hope others will chip in too. Some of my remarks after first read:
  1. Yes, a Suzuki Swift disambig page would be more than adequate, perhaps in Barina style, detailing the use of nameplate on different vehicles. The Suzuki Swift page for the current worldwide Swift should be moved to Suzuki Swift (code), where "code" is the manufacturer's chassis code (generation is ambigious, as it is a "different generation" Swift in every market.
  2. Suzuki Cultus Crescent should definitely have its own page, incorporating content on the Baleno and Suzuki Esteem. A brief mention/hatnote in this article would suffice.
  3. The main infobox should contain info only pertaining to all generations of the vehicle, not a summary of all kinds of everything + some minor memos such as "Suzukis", "GM versions" etc. - if some verion of the car is still in production, it should be stated that production span is "1983-present".
  4. I would rather divide the article generation-wise than by nameplate, but perhaps I just need to read it again.
Kind, PrinceGloria (talk) 18:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)