Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Iantresman

The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

[edit] User:Iantresman

Suspected sockpuppeteer

Iantresman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log · rfcu)

Suspected sockpuppets

Applecola (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Leokor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Report submission by

Art LaPella 06:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Evidence

Iantresman, Applecola and the inactive Leokor all advocate plasma cosmology, patiently and relatively free of the bombast typical of newbie plasma cosmology advocates. Applecola in particular showed a thorough understanding of Wikipedia procedures from his very first edit, and his sixth edit among others, thus resembling the veteran Wikilawyer Iantresman a lot more than he resembles a newbie.

Their punctuation is very similar and I don't think it's a coincidence. Talk:Plasma cosmology contains 44 semicolons - 6 from Applecola, 14 from Iantresman, 20 from Leokor, 3 from Mgmirkin and 1 from 74.43.736.132. All these editors similarly advocate plasma cosmology, so it is at least imaginable that all of them are the same person. Perhaps I should have included Mgmirkin as a suspect but that could be a coincidence. None of the semicolons on that page are used by opponents of plasma cosmology or by fence-sitters, although the whole page is a debate between advocates and opponents. Similarly at the most recent archive page, Talk:Plasma cosmology/Archive 8, there are 14 semicolons from Iantresman, 1 from Guy (who does not resemble Iantresman), 2 from Ionized (who does resemble Iantresman), 1 from Thatcher131 (who does not resemble Iantresman), 1 from TristanBC (?), and 2 from Mgmirkin (who does resemble Iantresman). Applecola and Leokor weren't editing yet, but it confirms that Ian is fond of semicolons. A less persuasive case can be made for similar use of question marks, which Ian often uses after declarative sentences, as if to ask "do you agree?". Counting only complete, declarative sentences without words like "perhaps" and "maybe", I count 2 for Mgmirkin, 1 for Iantresman, and 4 for Applecola (none for others) at Talk:Plasma cosmology, and 1 for Ionized, 4 for Iantresman, and 1 for ABlake (the only editor listed for question marks who doesn't resemble Iantresman) at the same archive page. Art LaPella

Please also review: User talk:81.31.38.19 and Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Iantresman. ScienceApologist 23:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

In reply to Iantresman below: Yes, Leokor/Leonid Korogodski appears to be a real person, as does Mgmirkin. However, when Leokor writes elsewhere [1] [2] [3] [4], he doesn't use semicolons (except in HTML code). I searched in vain for the semicolon character, then I searched for other phrases to prove the sites were all searchable. No semicolons. None. So, does Leokor suddenly change styles when he writes on a Wikipedia talk page? Or when Iantresman emails Leokor, does he say "I'm banned from Wikipedia, so do you mind if I use your name?" If this is all circumstantial, perhaps Ian would agree that another Check User for Applecola and Leokor would put this whole misunderstanding behind us. Art LaPella 01:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I reserve the right to improve my English over the years--and finally learn when to use a semicolon. Most of those links are fairly old. More relevantly to the subject: [5]. Incidentally, debates tend to invite sentences rich in semicolons. --Leokor 17:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The forces allegedly compelling Leokor to use semicolons have no such power over most of us. Leokor's American spelling on Talk:Plasma cosmology is almost perfect (3 errors) - too perfect compared to his other writing. So a spell checker must have been used, and I presume Ian can find an American one. Leokor's dashes probably aren't the result of a conspiracy theory (otherwise Ian would have thought about semicolons) but the only other place Leokor uses so many "--" 's is in the Leokor article he only now presents as his own, not in the Leokor articles I discovered by myself. So can we just Check User and sort this out? Art LaPella 06:58, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments

Iantresman is banned, and trying to get unbanned at WP:RFAR#Iantresman. I found no punctuation evidence against Soupdragon42, despite someone's sockpuppet accusation at User talk:Soupdragon42.

Comments by iantresman

• ArbCom clerk and administrator Newyorkbrad has authorized me to reply here, despite being on a temporary un-ban in order to post an appeal.[6]
• I think the "semi-colon" evidence is somewhat circumstantial, and I am sure there are similarities of characteristic editing that can apply to most editors.
• Leokor's real name is shown on his user page, and a search on Google Scholar shows a number of results that match his Ph.D. claims. I also emailed him, and he responded, and I am sure other editors could do the same
• Mgmirkin (mentioned above) is clearly a different person, and you can compare his photo on his user page with mine on my home page.
• Ionized (mentioned above) is also not me, we had a dialog on his talk page on "Plasma cosmology"[7]
• During the current ArbCom appeal, three people confidently accused Soupdragon42 of being a sock puppet of mine (including ScienceApologist above),[8] but fortunately I know the person, and we were able to supply personal information to show otherwise; see the subsequent change in view by user Durova.[9]
• Unfortunately I have no additional information on Applecola, but hope that the evidence above against the other alleged sockpuppets, is sufficient to outweigh the circumstantial evidence regarding Applecola, and a number of semi-colons. I suspect that Applecola's understanding of Wikipedia procedures is due to the username being new to Wikipedia, rather than the person.
• So yes, there are similarities in editing styles between different editors, but I don't think this is a surprise. --Iantresman 23:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments by Leokor

• My real name is Leonid Korogodski, and it is indeed listed at my user page. Any admin wishing to verify my identity is welcome to email me at the address listed in my profile, and I will respond both from my home and work addresses, with my employer's phone number attached for verification purposes, as well as further relevant information you may ask for. Also, feel free to inquire at MIT to verify my Ph.D. title. --Leokor 17:03, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
• Speaking of the writing styles, I would expect someone astute enough to research mine and Iantresman's semicolon usage to be able to recognize apparent differences between American and British spellings. As to the semicolons themselves, their use is governed by the rules of English grammar, and not by personal preference; although, we may err in grammar occasionally--hopefully, not often. In the previous sentence, as in this one, the use of semicolon is required; otherwise, the writer would be guilty of a comma splice. Although each of these sentences can be split, the parts are related closely enough to warrant joining them into a single sentence. That said, how about counting the dashes? I tend to use a lot. --Leokor 17:03, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
• You may also contact, if you wish, the staff and members of the Viable Paradise writers workshop--see their website for the contact information--to confirm my existence (and to give them a good laugh at the "punctuation evidence"). --Leokor 17:03, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Conclusions

• This needs to go to Checkuser, where someone can investigate IP evidence. I don't think anything else will solve this; the stylistic similarity between Iantresman, Applecola, and Leokor's posts is suggestive, but not conclusive. Leokor, if you want to email me to confirm your identity, please feel free. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Did you get my email? Sent the same day as you posted. Leokor 20:51, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

• At this point I don't see any strong reason to think that Applecola and Leokor are sockpuppets. As I said before, a Checkuser request may be warranted; this would be a code "F" request. --Akhilleus (talk) 22:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)