Talk:Supercell

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Supercell was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: October 2, 2006

Contents

[edit] Tornado refernce

There is a tornado reference in here, that says tornados are most common in North America (tho this article mentions the USA in partucular); however, the UK has more tornados per mile than anywhere else in the world. Maybe the tornado refernce should be changed if not gotten rid of.

[edit] Feature Article (well... maybe someday)

If this current reworking stands ('major overhaul' in the history), then this will just be the beginning. I'd like to take this one on and fully illustrate it with PD NOAA imagery and add sections on evolution and identification. Also, I'm in a bit of a dilemma with the North American centered directional cues in talking about structure and movement. If they don't bother anybody I guess they can stay, as the majority of these storms do occur in this region (or at least the majority of interest).--demonburrito 17:00, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] fin

okay guys... my work here is done.

here's a wish list:

stubs created for inflow fractus

cheers.--demonburrito 13:10, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Images and explanation

 It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.
The Free Image Search Tool (FIST) may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.
Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (January 2007)
  • The image for the high precipitation variation is not very good, and readers aren't really told what distinctive formations to look for. If there aren't any visual characteristics to look for, perhaps a radar shot would be more illustrative.
  • The formation process and relationships between vertical and horizontal movement are still a bit murky. Looking at the diagrams, it seems the formation of the mesocyclone and rotation about a horizontal axis does not entirely destroy a system of rough rotation about a horizontal axis (given the strong updrafts and downdrafts). How a horizontal axis can be made vertical like that is a bit unclear, mechanically. Does it involve the effects of impacts with the ground or inversion layers? Why is the shape so characteristic, and why does the mesocyclone tend to form in a particular quadrant? A diagram might help. Certainly a vertical cross-section showing wind patterns in general would be helpful.
  • The relationship between the supercell and weather fronts (when they are involved) is not well explained. One of the diagrams shows some front symbols; these also need to be explained.

-- Beland 03:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

This article failed the GA noms under WP:WIAGA criteria 2b (lack of inline citations).Tarret 02:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

It also fails on global coverage - almost the entire article is just about one country, ad nauseam, as if other parts of the world barely exist. {Globalize} tag added. - MPF 08:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Mesocyclone into this article

Seeing that a merge tagwas placed on mesocyclone today, with a discussion link to here, I would like to state my (initial, at least) opposition to such a merge. Mesocyclones are not specifically related to supercells, and I'm sure that even if they were, there is enough science and research behind them to warrant an article of its own. Crimsone 02:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Often a wikilink to mesocyclones is needed seperate from supercell. Plus, they are closely related but still seperate topics. -RunningOnBrains 04:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why two completely seperate weather phenomena would be merged. A mesocyclone can be found within a supercell, and most often are, but they are not caused by a supercell and can be found outside of supercells. It would seem to me like trying to merge fish and fresh water. --Bluenadas 09:49, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Mesocyclones when *almost* always referred to are understood to be within a supercell, but are distinct phenomena and both warrant articles (as do misocyclone and mesovortex and probably others). Evolauxia 18:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] tracking to the where?

"If they track to the right of the mean wind (relative to the vertical wind shear), they are said to be "right-movers." Alternatively, if they track to the left of the mean wind (relative to the shear), they are said to be "left-movers."" What does this mean? --Gbleem 10:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Look at the motion of the rest of the line of storms. If the supercell's motion is to the right of the direction you'd expect it to move in based on that, it's a right-mover. If it's to the left, it's a left-mover. Rdfox 76 12:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
how does verticle wind shear fit into that? Wouldn't mean wind be the same regardless of vertical wind shear? --Gbleem 12:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure--I'm somewhat of a self-taught amateur, so if anyone with professional training can set me straight on this, feel free--but I believe that it means that you don't look merely at the surface-level wind, or the 750mb wind, or the wind at any one level; you look at the average over the entire height of the storm to determine the overall mean wind.
However, what it all boils down to is that, looking at the storm on a radar loop, if it seems to be moving to the right of what the other storms are doing, it's a right-mover; if it's going left of them, it's a left-mover. I assume (and you know what they say about doing THAT) that the term came from either radar or visual observations of supercells doing those things, and then a technical definition was created using truly tortured English to describe it in a more "empirical" way. Rdfox 76 12:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
To throw some actual numbers in (although this is just according to a professor of mine, I'm too lazy to find a source right now), supercells move at 75% of the speed and 30 degrees to the right (or left, I assume) of the 0-6 km mean flow. HTH. Jason Patton (talk) 22:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The most severe thunderstorm--Supercell or Squall line?

In the "Severe thunderstorm" part in Thunderstorm, it says "Severe thunderstorms can occur from any type of thunderstorm, however multicell and squall lines represent the most common forms." Though here in Supercell, it says "Supercell thunderstorms are the largest, most severe class of thunderstorms. ".

The two opinions don't seem to be inclusive.

Both of squall line and supercell are severe, I guess. Multicell is not necessary very severe, according to the articles...Any expert please? --Natasha2006 17:59, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The term supercell, although definitions differ in the details, refers to a persistent rotating updraft within a quasi-steady state cell of deep, moist convection (a thunderstorm). There are no requirements for the occurrence of severe weather, although the vast majority of supercells produce it so there is a strong association. Supercells do produce the largest hail as well as the largest, strongest, and longest path and duration tornadoes. Supercells come in many sizes, that has nothing to do with any definition, and squall lines and many multicells are usually much larger. Quasi-linear structures are the largest (excluding tropical cyclones) kind of convection, and can also produce extremely intense winds over a very large area (ranging from a microburst to a derecho in size and over 70 m/s (150 mph) in wind speed).
In a nutshell, neither squall lines or supercells are necessarily severe although supercells could be said to be the most severe storm, however, squall lines are the largest. Evolauxia 19:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)