Talk:Sumerian king list

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[cut entire text copied from:] http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/v12n3_sumerian.asp

Contents

[edit] Main article

See Talk:Chronology of the Ancient Orient

[edit] Name

This page should be renamed List of Sumerian Kings. freestylefrappe 05:00, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)

no it shouldn't. A "list of sumerian kings" would be something compiled by wikipedians. "The Sumerian king list" is a specific (actually, several versions) ancient document. This isn't just another "List of" article. This is an article about a notable list. dab (ᛏ) 13:02, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
You're right. My mistake. freestylefrappe 17:16, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)

Who are the ancestors of Alulim?

[edit] Title

Given that this is a proper noun, shouldn't this be titled "Sumerian King List". AdamBiswanger1 23:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Information about the list?

It would be really nice to see some information about the list other than contents of the list. Like, where was it found, who found it, what did it look like, etc... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.50.122 (talk) 21:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Early Dynastic I, II and III periods

The statement "Their rules are measured in sars - periods of 3600 years - the next unit up after 60 in Sumerian counting (3600 = 60x60), and in ners - units of 600." does not fit with Sumerian numerology. A vertical wedge could mean either 1, 60 or 3600 depending on place value. From my own study it is apparent that each unit should be listed as 60 not 3600. Each of the Early Bronze Age I, II and III length of rule down to Gilgamesh should be divided by 60. If you do the math everything else fits into place. SeanT June 7th 2008 12:47AM MST -7. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krkr8m (talk • contribs) 07:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

The archeological periods are somewhat off in the article: before the flood, there were the Uruk and Jemdet Nasr periods. Then the early Dynastic I and II overlap the first two dynasties, and Early Dynastic III starts with the First Dynasty of Ur.Nicklausse (talk) 02:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

The river flood you refer to has been radio-carbon dated to about 2900 BCE. Polychrome pottery from the Jemdet Nasr period was found immediately below the 2900 BCE flood layer. Kish artifacts were found immediately above the 2900 BCE flood layer. Hence the mythical kings that are listed in the Sumerian King List immediately before the sentence about the flood correspond to the Jemdet Nasr period, even though none of them have been identified in artifacts. The Early Dynastic I period is not represented in the Sumerian King List and is distinguished from ED II only by the shape of cylinder seals. I will rename the mythical kings as Jemdet Nasr kings and cite references if that is acceptable. Greensburger (talk) 03:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I actually corrected the article right away - I somehow got logged out, so it doesn't show that I did it. Nicklausse (talk) 15:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The following sentence was deleted: "No inscriptions have yet been found verifying kings from the Early Dynastic I period. ref Cambridge Ancient History, third edition, Vol I, part 2, page 244. /ref" What is your reference for ED I inscriptions being found? Greensburger (talk) 01:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It's trivial, because the actual earliest inscription is mentioned several times. Sumerophile (talk) 01:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Was that inscription in Kish? Are some ED I kings now known? If memory serves, there is no clear distinction between ED I and II except for the shape of cylinder seals. Greensburger (talk) 02:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes that inscription with Enmebaragesi, which is the earliest attested so far, so by implication earlier kings have not yet been attested, no matter what size their cylinder seals. Sumerophile (talk) 02:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thorkild Jacobsen

It seems like there should be a reference or footnote for Jacobsen, being the definitive (though not final) authority on the SKL i.e.

  Thorkild Jacobsen. The Sumerian King List. Assyriological Studies, no. 11.
  Chicago: University of Chicago Press. (1939) ISBN 0-226-62273-8.

Ploversegg (talk) 18:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)ploveregg

This list comes from the Oxford compilation: The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature, but I agree that we shouldn't just gloss over Jacobsen. Perhaps something could be added about his contribution to our knowledge of the king list.
Sumerophile (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, the link to Chronology of the Acient Orient warps to Chronology of the Ancient Near East anyway, so it might make sense to just make it that. And I think that the reign of Sargon is really around 55 years (and the kings up to the end of his line should add to 157 years).

Ploversegg (talk) 01:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)ploversegg

Any years given come from archaeology, but the lengths of reigns (including the long reigns of earlier kings) are the traditional lengths given in the king list itself. Sumerophile (talk) 18:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Hm, well http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr211.htm seemed like a decent translation of the SKL to me, but I'm newish to WP so I'll defer to your judgement. Ploversegg (talk) 22:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)ploversegg

It doesn't mean the traditional lengths of rule are correct, but the document exists as it is, and shouldn't be altered. I added the archaeological years for ease of reference. Sumerophile (talk) 23:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)