Talk:Stow of Wedale

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Contents

[edit] Copyvio

Previous article was copyvio, started work on a new article at Stow, Scotland/Temp -- Hitchhiker89 19:55, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Temp moved to main article. RedWolf 02:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

This article has been renamed from Stow, Scottish Borders to Stow of Wedale as the result of a move request.

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was - unopposed move. Keith D (talk) 23:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Stow, Scottish Borders → Stow of Wedale — As someone who encounters this place a lot in history books, I only ever come across it as Stow of Wedale, though I'm sure locals probably just call it Stow. Current name is a slightly clumsy way to disambiguate a place that doesn't need disambiguating, as there is only one Stow of Wedale. —Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 11:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Support as nom. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 11:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. Natural disambiguation should take precedence, unless perhaps in the cases where we disambiguate pre-emptively (not the case here). A redirect from Stow with the historic shire (which one is it, btw?) would be helpful. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. This says the County of Edinburgh and the County of Selkirk for the parish, with the village in Edinburgh, so Stow, Edinburghshire (ha, ha) and Stow, Midlothian. Re. the etymology, I think there's a discussion in one of Barrow's books. I'll see if I can find it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
    • And one of the external links says Stow was moved to Selkirkshire in 1972. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Support - it is very sensible to favour 'natural disambiguation', as a commentator above puts it. Moreover, the technical and correct name of a settlement should only be ignored where common usage is very much in favour.--Breadandcheese (talk) 17:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Dahl

I see that wiche "shrine" + dahl is from the first website cited. I find this very doubtful. Wiche, wicca has always had the force of modern English witch, including white witch. Dahl is a form of the common Germanic stem which occurs, as far as I can tell, only in some Modern Swedish (and Mod. Norwegian) surnames; the OED cites the Sw. form as dal with no h; it is a doubtful form for explaining Scots. Under these circumstances, I would prefer not to include this etymology - or indeed either, "vale of woe" sounds like a folk-etymology. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:41, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

No luck with an etymology, it was Stow that was discussed, not Wedale. I believe that Vale of Woe is a back-formation from the medieval Latin vallis dolorosa, but that's no more authoritative that varia capella for Falkirk. "Interpreted as Vale of Woe in the middle ages" would be about right. I can find no discussion of Wedale in Nicolaisen, Scottish Place-names, or Watson, Celtic Place-Names, beyond the statement that it's English in Watson, p. 148. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Watson wouldn't discuss it because it is English. David Ross' book Scottish Place-Names says Stow just means place, and if we've got dale then all you need is the river, and it's not usual to expect the etymology of a river name to be transparent, unless its called Esk or something easy like that. But that might not be the explanation, as no river is called "We"; according to Watson Wedale merely lies at the mouth of Gala and Tweed. Maybe "Wedale" is a corruption of "Galadale", i dunno. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 13:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Other possible solution I can think of; some think that Galadale is the area referred to in Welsh as Gwen Ystrath; so if the English were translating it, the "t" in Hwit dæl could have been assimilated. This may be circular if it turns out the arguments for identifying it with Gwen Ystrath are that it means "White dale", but nevertheless Hwit dæl is still possible. So you might have as an etymlogy "Place of the White Valley". Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)